14 April 2015
- Mary Wong
Analytics
Agenda:
- Roll call/updates to SOI
- Update on deadlines and dates regarding WG Initial Report (WG chairs)
- Discuss draft Annex to Disclosure Framework (see attached)
- Discuss language concerning “pre-textual” disclosure requests (see Section III.C(5) in attached document)
- [if time permits] Finalize language concerning attestation and automation
- Next steps/next meeting
Documents for Review:
Draft Disclosure Text - updated 13 Apr 2015
PPSAI - Work Plan v8 - 13 Apr 2015
MP3 Recording: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-14apr15-en.mp3
Meeting Transcript: http://gnso.icann.org/en/meetings/transcript-ppsa-14apr15-en.pdf
Attendees:
Frank Michlick – Individual
Justin Macy - BC
Val Sherman – IPC
Griffin Barnett – IPC
Kathy Kleiman – NCSG
Darcy Southwell – RrSG
Steve Metalitz - IPC
Graeme Bunton – RrSG
Jim Bikoff - IPC
Volker Greimann – RrSG
Alex Deacon –IPC
Stephanie Perrin – NCSG
Phil Corwin – BC
Chris Pelling – RrSG
David Hughes – IPC
Tatiana Khramtsova – RrSG
Terri Stumme – BC
Holly Raiche – ALAC
Vicky Sheckler – IPC
Susan Kawaguchi - BC
Luc Seufer – RrSG
Michele Neylon – RrSG
Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP
Roger Carney – RrSG
Kiran Malancharuvil – IPC
James Bladel – RrSG
Paul McGrady – IPC
Sarah Wyld – RrSG
Carlton Samuels – ALAC
Apologies:
Don Blumenthal – RySG
Todd Williams – IPC
Richard Leaning – Individual
ICANN staff:
Mary Wong
Danielle Andela
Amy Bivins
Terri Agnew
Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday 14 April 2015
Terri Agnew:Welcome to the PPSAI WG Meeting of 14 April 2015
Chris Pelling:afternoon all
Terri Agnew:Jim Bikoff is on audio
Terri Agnew:Osvaldo Novoa has joined
Osvaldo Novoa:Hello all, sorry I'm late
Terri Agnew:Griffin Barnett has joined
Holly Raiche:Is Kathy just on audio and not Adobe?
Terri Agnew:Luc Seufer has joined
Terri Agnew:Kathy is on both
Terri Agnew:Kiran Malancharuvil is on audio
Kathy:Just in - Hi All!
Luc Seufer:Hi Kathy
Holly Raiche:Thanks Graeme
Terri Agnew:Vicky Sheckler has joined
Vicky Sheckler:sorry i'm late
Mary Wong:Thanks, James - we will be sure to highlight both agreeements and differences as best we can, esp in the Exec Summary of the report
Frank Michlick:Sorry for joining late.
Terri Agnew:Frank Michlick has joined
Terri Agnew:David Hughes is on audio
Terri Agnew:Stephanie Perrin has joined
Holly Raiche:Could the relevant documents be put up please
James Bladel:Trusted sender should be an option/best practice. Not obligatoin. But would make life easier for high-volume providers or reporters
Vicky Sheckler:agree w/ steve
Mary Wong:@Holly, apologies for missing your comment - were you referring to the Annex that Steve is discussing? That should be on your AC screen.
Holly Raiche:Nothing is on my screen!
Kiran Malancharuvil:@Holly - I see the Annex. You may want to log out and back in?
Holly Raiche:@ Krian - thanks - I can see the chat column and the column on the right - just nothing in the middle! will try again
Terri Agnew:@Holly, did logging back in help?
Volker Greimann:Michele is right... I do that _all_ _the_ time!
Michele Neylon:yes you do
Michele Neylon:bloody German :)
James Bladel::)
Michele Neylon:Kathy - isn't that sort of inferred?
Luc Seufer:don't you worry Michele, once the accreditation will be in place Volker will have to pinky swear he won't do it again.
Kathy:Maybe but everything in brackets, I think, is in a "maybe"
Mary Wong:@Kathy, we can call that (and other square bracketed language elsewhere) out specifically as needing community feedback - since that's the "device" we are using to indicate places where the WG has not yet reached consensus?
val sherman:+1 kiran
Vicky Sheckler:given the discussion, it seems there are pblms with requiring a specific jdx
Luc Seufer:hum that's basic international law. You can serve us a foreign court order all you want, if it hasn't follow the exequatur process we won't act on it.
Kathy:+1 Volker - and under the Providers' laws
Vicky Sheckler:agree w/ Michele
Kiran Malancharuvil:Agree. Overspecification is a problem. Appreciate the clarification from Volker.
Michele Neylon:people will hopefuly raise issues via the comments
Michele Neylon:ie. the comment period
James Bladel:Need to drop the call a bit early. Looking forward to the publication of the Initial Report. Important Milestone for this group!
Kathy:and removal of the word "only
Kathy:"only"
Mary Wong:@Kathy, wouldn't removing the "intent to deceive" language be preferable? So the standard remains "knowingly false representations"?
Kathy:Tx for the good discussion of the Annex, Steve!
Kathy:@Mary: I think so. Also puzzling over the word "only" when that edit is made...
Terri Agnew:Carlton Samuels has joined
Vicky Sheckler:think we should leave "only" b/c I think the reps cover the issues kathy mentioned. But I need to confirm this
Carlton Samuels:Morning all. Had a whale of a time coming getting on
Holly Raiche:Morning Carlton
Vicky Sheckler:(i.e. leave in the document)
Kathy:Hi Carlton!
Mary Wong:@Kathy, @Vicky, our read of it (not being the drafters) is that retaining "only" while striking out "intent to deceive" would make it clear that there is a single standard for the process, ie a false rep was made knowingly.
Holly Raiche:I'd be happy with privacy service as well
Vicky Sheckler:agree w/ val
Kathy:I think we put the whole paragraph out for public comment - with a paragraph to ICANN Community sharing the questions we have and the input we are seeking
val sherman:how is it easier for the provider to balance and figure out which purpose is main?
Michele Neylon:exactly - that's why I'd prefer "privacy service" instead of "privacy" by itself
Vicky Sheckler:agree w/ steve metalitz that usigng privacy swallos the rule
Kathy:Right!
Michele Neylon:but you can't expect us to put our clients in danger ..
Alex Deacon:we can't have vague language here and work hard to ensure we don't create a loophole where, to borrow Steve's wording, the exception swallows the rule.
Michele Neylon:I know we've had requests for reveal where if we had our client would have ened up dead
Michele Neylon:the request => other motivation eg. doing them harm
Carlton Samuels:Why would we care aabout the motivation? We have concealed personal data by design and effected by contract. All we need do is to demand you do not break the contract without well-founded cause. And we're giving guidance as to possible reasons for breaking contract; slam dunk cases or when in doubt, seek advice.
Holly Raiche:AGre - maybe word in the revere - the reason mainly NOT in relation to the trademark/IP issue as being claimed
Kathy:I think we all agree with Volker -- but how to reflect in the language?
Holly Raiche:@Kathy - agreed
Kathy:What if we remove the words [solely] and [mainly]?
Alex Deacon:"for the avoidance of doubt..."
Vicky Sheckler:need to be careful that we don't fall into last week's issues about unncessarily expanding this beyond the narrow pretext purpose of this paragraph
val sherman:true, Vicky
Mary Wong:It's the same language in all three places now, Steve.
Kathy:where did the automation language go?
Mary Wong:@Kathy it is still at the bottom of the document; we haven't changed it pending final discussion (per notes on the right from last week)
Kathy:@Mary: tx!
val sherman:Kathy's latest language captures that possibility.
Kiran Malancharuvil:I would like to continue the discussion on attestation on the list, but I don't think we have time today
Mary Wong:We will remove the "human review" phrase unless there are objections/suggestions.
Kathy:Good call!
Kathy:Tx Steve!
Kiran Malancharuvil:Alternatively, int he spirit of getting it out, I'm okay with what it states and minority views repped
Kiran Malancharuvil:thanks Steve!
Kiran Malancharuvil::)
val sherman:thanks all!
Carlton Samuels:Thanks all
Kathy:@Mary: can you put it in italics first?