28 October 2014
- Mary Wong
The next Privacy & Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP WG teleconference is scheduled for Tuesday 28 October 2014 at 1400 UTC
Please be aware that the clocks will have changed in some parts of the world, and in others not yet, so refer to the other times link below to ensure you join the meeting at the correct time. UTC time will be adjusted once all clock changes have taken place.
07:00 PDT, 10:00 EDT, 14:00 London, 15:00 CET
For other times: http://tinyurl.com/mz3nsk8
Adobe Connect WITH AUDIO enabled: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/ppsai/
Agenda:
- Roll Call/Updates to SOI
- Review updated Work Plan
- Recap/review of the WG F2F facilitated session on 10 October
- Continue deliberations on draft language from the 10 October session
- Continue deliberations on Disclosure and Category F
- Next steps
Documents for Review:
PPSAI - updated Work Plan - 21 Oct 2014
Draft Language on Relay & Disclosure - 10 Oct 2014
Disclosure Discussion Draft - REDLINE v2 to v1
Tabular Comparison - v2 - 22 Oct 2014
MP3 Recording: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-20141028-en.mp3
Meeting Transcript: http://gnso.icann.org/en/meetings/transcript-ppsa-28oct14-en.pdf
Attendees:
Steve Metalitz - IPC
Graeme Bunton – RrSG
Griffin Barnett – IPC
Frank Michlick – Individual
Don Blumenthal – RySG
David Heasley-IPC
Jim Bikoff-IPC
Chris Pelling – RrSG
Kathy Kleiman – NCSG
Justin Macy - BC
Susan Kawaguchi – BC
Kristina Rosette – IPC
Darcy Southwell – RrSG
Paul McGrady – IPC
Sarah Wyld – RrSG
Victoria Scheckler - IPC
Michele Neylon – RrSG
Val Sherman – IPC
Alex Deacon – IPC
Todd Williams – IPC
Phil Corwin – BC
Volker Greimann - RrSG
Holly Raiche – ALAC
Theo Geurts - RrSG
Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP
Tatiana Khramtsova - RrSG
Stephanie Perrin - NCSG
David Cake - NCSG
Susan Prosser - RrSG
Christian Dawson - ISPC
Apologies:
Amr Elsadr - NCSG
Carlton Samuels – At-Large
James Bladel – RrSG
ICANN staff:
Mary Wong
Amy Bivins
Glen de Saint Géry
Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday 28 October 2014:
Glen de Saint Gery:Welcome to the PPSAI call on October 28 2014
Graeme Bunton:No audio via adobe? only call in?
Glen de Saint Gery:sound should be up
Holly Raiche:Are the dial outs being made?
Graeme Bunton:I only see the option to dial in
Holly Raiche:Is the option replacing an earlier request for a dial out?
Mary Wong:Hi all, there was a new plugin I had to download today - I have Adobe sound and mic.
Glen de Saint Gery:Holly we are dialing out to you now
Holly Raiche:Thanks
Chris Pelling:afternoon all
Theo Geurts:good afternoon all
Graeme Bunton:I am able to test my mic set up using the audio setup in the adobe connect, but the option is still not enabled when I try to connect my audio
Osvaldo Novoa:Hello all, I will dial in now.
Graeme Bunton:dialing in, waiting on operator
Volker Greimann:what was that just now? no audio?
Volker Greimann:did anyone elses audio drop or just mine?
Michele Neylon:got dropped by the operator
Frank Michlick:I still have audio in the adobe room.
Glen de Saint Gery:the operrator is getting people on the line
Chris Pelling:I can also hear audio in the room
steve metalitz:Schedule looks good to me.
Glen de Saint Gery:@Volker, is your audio all right now?
Holly Raiche:Actually, in apAC, therarere many very different regimes
Holly Raiche:Sorry - thought you meant APAC region
David Cake:I agree that F2F went well.
Stephanie Perrin:Audio is going back and forth...is that me or are other people having trouble?
Michele Neylon:Dialling in might be saner
Mary Wong:@Steve, yes
Mary Wong:Staff is assuming that the proposal highlighted in the document pertained only to Disclosure and not Publication
Stephanie Perrin:@Michele thx
Paul McGrady:Apologies, but I am having a really hard time hearing Don today.
Michele Neylon:Paul - dialling in seems to work - adobe might be a bit b0rked
Paul McGrady:Michele - thanks! I will try that.
Glen de Saint Gery:if you need a dialout, please let me know
David Cake:I was about to discuss, just realise I need to dial in
Paul McGrady:Dial in is much better. Thanks!
David Cake:I have no great issues with what Steve said, but I have disagreements with some of Vals other suggestions.
Stephanie Perrin:agree witk Kathy K
Volker Greimann:+1
Philip Corwin:On Disclosure, what IP rights are we talking about? Not patent, I presume. Certainly copyright. But are we including trademark -- there is UDRP and URS for that, and I don't think we should be creating a parallel procedure for domain name-related trademark allegations. sale of counterfeit goods on a website may be a different matter.
Chris Pelling:Sorry I am listening, where are we page and point ?
Chris Pelling:page 1 point 1 ?
Mary Wong:@Chris, we're on the Relay issue
Graeme Bunton:Ahahahaah. Thanks Steve
Don Blumenthal':And Val's suggested edits in email.
Val Sherman:My point regarding cost-shifting was specific to the second bullet -- which references a number of failed attempts at delivery via the email address provided.
Graeme Bunton:Technically, not 'mine'
Mary Wong:@Graeme, too late :)
Michele Neylon:nor mine
Todd Williams:+1 Steve. This is pretty narrow. Doesn't implicate examples Graham mentioned.
Todd Williams:Graeme. Sorry. :)
Kathy:Oh no - more quilts!
Kathy:Quilts and diapers....
Chris Pelling:+1 Michele
Volker Greimann:Not more diapers, please
steve metalitz:Agree with Michele that all conclusions are preliminary but without "must" there's not a definable minimum standard for accreditation.
Kristina Rosette:Apologies in advance for when/if I come off mute: The DC cab drivers are having another honking protest on Pennsylvania Avenue (immediately under my office window).
Mary Wong:@Kristina, hence the need to move offices! :)
Kristina Rosette:+1 to Steve w/r/t need for "must" in order to have an actual minimum standard
Stephanie Perrin:REcommend parking the idea until we are closer to completion. Also recommend leaving discretion with providers. They are after all responsible.
Michele Neylon:+1 Stephanie
Volker Greimann:so essentially the taxi drivers are pushing you to use Uber instead again?
Michele Neylon:Taxi drivers - don't get me started ..
Kathy:I agree with the concerns raised by Michele and Stephanie, but also the note that the "should" applies only to the electronic communication. That is a detail I imissed.
Kathy:Perhaps we should add a line that p/p service provides have discretion over any non-electronic communication that they receive.
Kathy:providers
Val Sherman:David -- we are talking about a stiuation where there have been a "certain minimum number of delivery failures -- i.e. hard bounces bc something is wrong with the email.
Volker Greimann:Totally disagree with Steve: The standards for accreditation have nothing to do with forcing a provider to provide a third party with a potentially useless message.
Stephanie Perrin:Is thew issue of must/should not something that we ask for comments on at the end of our drafting process? and cinch up accordingly?
Alex Deacon:@michele - agreed. one a single 5xx falure should be sufficient.
Michele Neylon:http://www.iana.org/assignments/smtp-enhanced-status-codes/smtp-enhanced-status-codes.xhtml
Alex Deacon:a single....
Michele Neylon:temporary failures are a different matter
Kathy:I think Val's suggestion of yesterday is one we should go back to our SG on and talk about it.
Alex Deacon:right
Chris Pelling:some nice feedback a few times then
Volker Greimann:I am not currently dialled in. Usually use the Adobe
Glen de Saint Gery:can we call out to you Volker?
Volker Greimann:dialing in now
Kathy:@Mary, in the notes, final paragraph, could you change "our" to "Val's" and then add some notes re: the concerns raised by others (because this is a shift of several things including should -> must and cost shifting.
Kathy:Tx!
Chris Pelling:Cheers kathy
Volker Greimann:did not realize I would be asked to present
Don Blumenthal':Validated postal code?
Michele Neylon:huh?
Don Blumenthal':Thinking of the Whois check processes
Michele Neylon:There's no requirement to check post codes
Volker Greimann:we just deactivated post-code checks for certain countries
Volker Greimann:(and before you send an email to compliance, these are countries that do not have postal codes)
Chris Pelling:Steve - we do not control content
Darcy Southwell:@Steve, That was helpful, thanks.
Graeme Bunton:Typically, when we work on malware and phishing issues, its with people we've built relationships with over years. I worry that removing our discretion on what to respond means that we then need to be far more rigid with those issues.
Don Blumenthal':I should clarify. We don't see malware as a content issue without our anti abuse polcy. The point was to suggest that "content" definitions may vary.
Michele Neylon:+1 Graeme
Val Sherman:+1 @ Steve and Paul -- disclosure may obviate and/or faciliate a URS or UDRP.
Kristina Rosette:And, NAF's URS supplemental rules make clear that the Respondent is the person/entity listed in Whois when the case is filed. That would be the proxy provider. So Phil's proposed solution doesn't seem to apply to URS.
Don Blumenthal':Question for me or Paul?
Kathy:+1 Volker - we have to take into account abuse on both sides - Registrants and Lawyers/Those seeking info
Paul McGrady:I'm happy to respond to Volker's comment, but it appears we are out of time.
Don Blumenthal':OK. For me. I'll follow up. in email.
Philip Corwin:I have to leave call at 11 sharp but reiterate my concern abiout compulsory disclosure oif registrant data based upon mere allegation of TM infringement by a domain name. UDRP and URS filings sometimes are denied, yet we would compel disclsoure absent a decision on the merits. Also, while relay of a C&D letter may help avoid filing of a UDRP or URS, disclosure of registrant data does not promote that result.
Kathy:I would like to hear Paul's response...
Michele Neylon:Agree with Phil
Kathy:Same bat channel. Bye all
Michele Neylon:allegation of TM infringement is not the same as actual infringement
Frank Michlick:Thank you.
Michele Neylon:bye