4 November 2014

Attendees: 

Steve Metalitz - IPC

Graeme Bunton – RrSG

Frank Michlick – Individual

Don Blumenthal – RySG

David Heasley-IPC

Jim Bikoff-IPC

Chris Pelling – RrSG

Justin Macy - BC

Susan Kawaguchi – BC

Kristina Rosette – IPC

Darcy Southwell – RrSG

Sarah Wyld – RrSG

Val Sherman – IPC

Todd Williams – IPC

Phil Corwin – BC

Volker Greimann - RrSG

Holly Raiche – ALAC
Theo Geurts - RrSG

Stephanie Perrin - NCSG
David Cake - NCSG

Susan Prosser – RrSG

Libby Baney – BC

Eric Brunner-Williams-N/A

Luc Seufer – RrSG

Philip Marano-IPC

Lindsay Hamilton-Reid-RrSG

Kiran Malancharuvil-IPC

Carlton Samuels – At-Large

Apologies:
Michele Neylon – RrSG

Alex Deacon – IPC

Kathy Kleiman – NCSG

Victoria Scheckler - IPC

David Hughes-IPC

James Bladel – RrSG

Paul McGrady – IPC

Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP

Keith Kupferschmid-IPC

Christian Dawson-ISPCP

ICANN staff:

Mary Wong

Terri Agnew

Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday 04 November 2014:

   Terri Agnew:Welcome to the PPSAI call  on 04 November 2014

  Chris Pelling:afternoon all

  Holly Raiche:Hi Terri.  Did I request a dial out?

  Terri Agnew:Hi Holly, you did not but I amhaving the op dial out to you now

  Holly Raiche:Tks - 61 2 9436 2149

  Graeme Bunton:Crank calls for Holly!

  Holly Raiche:It's 2.00am - I promise not to answer!

  Theo Geurts::)

  Graeme Bunton:Volker!

  Terri Agnew:Please remember to mute when not speaking

  Theo Geurts:Volker instructing folks at work hehe

  Val Sherman::)

  Philip Corwin:Good morning all

  Volker Greimann 2:now?

  Graeme Bunton:better

  Theo Geurts:all good now Volker

  Terri Agnew:Stephabnie Perrin has joined

  Terri Agnew:**Stephanie Perrin

  Libby Baney:Don, I'm having a bit of trouble hearing you through Adobe. Anyone else?

  Libby Baney:yeah, thanks!

  Graeme Bunton:sounds ok to me

  David Cake:fine with me too.

  Terri Agnew:Lindsay Hamilton-Reid has joined

  Lindsay Hamilton-Reid:Apologies for being late.

  Luc Seufer:operator said you spkoe too close to the mic

  Terri Agnew:Phil Marano has joined

  Sarah Wyld - Aplus.net:If there's privacy on the domain, wouldn't the IP right holder not be able to know if a licensed user is using it?

  Sarah Wyld - Aplus.net:B/c there's privacy they can't see who the user is.

  Sarah Wyld - Aplus.net:(Personally I still don't think it's a good reason to reveal)

  Luc Seufer:Isn't the use of the domain name important? And "revealing" who is using the domain?

  David Cake:Surely if they have had rights granted, they would respond to a relayed request?

  Holly Raiche:@ david - you would think so

  Philip Corwin:Agree with discussing reveal further offline -- and clarifying again that my concerns rekate solely to automatice reveal based solely on allegation of infringement based solely on domain name (for which UDRP & URS exist) rather than allegations of, e.g., sale of counterfeit goods on the website.

  Philip Corwin:And agree with David that an authorized user would likely respond to a relayed request.

  Terri Agnew:Keith Kupferschmid sends his apologies

  Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):just a comment on registrar deacreditation, this assumes that there is deaccreditation for reasons other than non-payment, as a general rule.

  Holly Raiche:@ Eris - that was my understanding

  Holly Raiche:@ Stephanie - absolutely agree with the issues you are raising

  Mary Wong:The ICANN Compliance Dept publishes a monthly dashboard/report: https://features.icann.org/compliance

  Holly Raiche:What hat raises is the issue of transfer of a P/P client - which we have discussed but not necessarily solved

  Mary Wong:Part of the monthly report deals with Complaints and Enforcement; see this for an example of what they deal with: https://features.icann.org/compliance/enforcement-notices

  Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):i think seperation of the registrar and the p/p services will help, only want to terminate the p/p if only the p/p tos is substantively and repeatedly breeched.

  Carlton Samuels:Howdy all

  Holly Raiche:Morning Carlton

  Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):and only want to terminate the registrar service only if the registrar tos (raa08, raa13) is similarly breached.

  Stephanie Perrin:Totally agree with Phil on the mixing point.  Need clarity here.

  Stephanie Perrin:Also need clarity....if a registrar is de-accredited, the PP service is separate in my view.

  Holly Raiche:I thought we jumped right into deaccreditation of the provider

  Volker Greimann 2:de-accreditation does not equal full disclosure

  Carlton Samuels:The arrnagement is for independent accreditation for P/P provider and Rr. So deaccreditation  process must be separate for both.

  Holly Raiche:@ Volker - I think we are talking about de-accreditation of the provider - not about disclosure of details of the registrant

  Mary Wong:@Susan, thanks - we will check with our Rr Services & Compliance colleagues and get back to the WG.

  Susan Kawaguchi:Thanks Mary

  Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):the question to ask if when icann (mike z) sends out "who wants to pick up the registrants of deaccredited registrar X", is an additional condition that the new registrar offer p/p previously.

  Stephanie Perrin:ONe of the issues, it seems to me, is how my PP service is transferred...if I select a provider based on whether they will defend me in case of IP claims, and the new provider chosen by ICANN does not, what are my appeal mechanisms?How fast do I have to move?  it is a matter that is somewhat more consequential, when one has taken the effort to use a proxy..

  Carlton Samuels:If we think deaccreditation of the one MUST impact the other in cases where the P/P procvider is also a Rr provider, then we use a 'fit and proper' framework

  Susan Kawaguchi:agree Carlton

  Mary Wong:2013 RAA: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/approved-with-specs-2013-09-17-en

  Mary Wong:Termination is in Section 5.5

  Holly Raiche:Agre with Stephanie - it is one of the issues tha flows from de-accreditation

  Stephanie Perrin:@Carlton yes re separation of business lines

  Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):iirc, if X has registrants in {com,net,org} then the registrars who respond to mike z's sollicitation mail must previously have at least passed ot&e with the {com/net} and {org} registry providers. rinse and repeat for the 2000 and 2004 and now 2013 sets of operators.

  Terri Agnew:Kiran Malancharuvil has joined audio

  Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):so p/p is an additional constraint on the set of would-be failover registrars.

  Graeme Bunton:Could be we need a bit more time to go over the template.

  Mary Wong:Current interim spec: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/approved-with-specs-2013-09-17-en#privacy-proxy

  steve metalitz:ICANN does currently send breach notices to registrars that operate p/p services, which could lead to de-accreditation of the registrar, see https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/serad-to-elizarov-31oct14-en.pdf     

  Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):steve, same t&c as for raa breach?

  Terri Agnew:Carlton Samuels has joined

  Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):same cure window?

  steve metalitz:@Eric, the link is to an RAA breach notice so I think the answer to your questions is yes

  Stephanie Perrin:I agree with Graeme, It would be nice to get more time to go over all these links.  Sorry for not having done assigned homework.

  Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):ok, since it is possible to serially in-breach/not-in-breach via recurring cure (e.g., whois server down, up, down, ...). it would not be appropriate for serial breach of p/p either way (disclosure w/o reason or non-disclosure w/reason).

  Mary Wong:@Steve, thanks  yes, the WG has some specific recs for customer obligations so those would "count" for TOS/T&C breach, presumably.

  Chris Pelling:are we looking to have a f2f in singapore ?

  Chris Pelling:being next feb now

  Chris Pelling:ta

  Mary Wong:@Chris, presumably the WG will have its usual meeting, but there won't be the additional day of facilitation as there was in LA

  Philip Corwin:FYI, I will miss next Tuesday's call as I will be flying to Phoenix for INTA Leadership meeting.

  Mary Wong:Thanks for letting us know, Phil - we'll note your apologies.

  Philip Corwin:Bye all

Volker Greimann 2:thank you all

  Luc Seufer:thanks

  David Cake:thank you all

 Carlton Samuels:Thanks all

  Carlton Samuels:bye