AC Chat: 2019-04-03 Consolidated Policy Working Group Call
- Andrea Glandon
- Aleksey Khapchenko
- Michelle DeSmyter
Andrea Glandon: (4/3/2019 15:15) Welcome to the At-Large Consolidated Policy Working Group call held on Wednesday, 03 April 2019 at 21:00 UTC.
Andrea Glandon: (15:16) Wiki Agenda Page: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/x/5RXwBQ
Glenn McKnight(NARALO): (15:50) HI
Glenn McKnight(NARALO): (15:50) Muted
Maureen Hilyard: (15:50) Hi all.. I too am muted
Glenn McKnight(NARALO): (15:50) HI Gordon. I will contact you upon my return from North Carolina
Gordon Chillcott: (15:50) Muted.
Gordon Chillcott: (15:51) Hi, Glenn. OK. Send an e-mail. My own availability might be in question.
Glenn McKnight(NARALO): (15:52) @Gordon, let me know when you have some time. I am busy with ISOC Board stuff ie. Governance committee stuff etc Thurs and Friday
Gordon Chillcott: (15:53) Next week is pretty booked for me. Week after might be good.
Glenn McKnight(NARALO): (15:53) k
Glenn McKnight(NARALO): (15:53) Notes on the IFF event on DNS Abuse
Glenn McKnight(NARALO): (15:53) https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__pad.internetfreedomfestival.org_p_910&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=VzyS0eMsX-1lealFqxbj9BzkPgLWXn5RDkzDSFRVAxA&s=tEOQFCRiDvgvpiqwXoAb7RYvdfJhXzpKHXGUvAq_EZ4&e=
Maureen Hilyard: (15:54) As a headsup. I can only stay for an hour.. and then I will leave quietly :)
Glenn McKnight(NARALO): (15:54) Michael Casadevall - ICAN fellow. Research into DNS tampering & methods to detect & help mitigate censorship via DNS
George Kirikos: (15:58) Hi folks.
Maureen Hilyard: (15:59) Hi George
George Kirikos: (15:59) Hi Maureen. How are you?
Maureen Hilyard: (16:00) Great. And good to see a steady group arriving for this call.
Marita Moll: (16:02) Sorry,, just tuned in from another call.
Evin Erdogdu: (16:02) Hello all, welcome.
Greg Shatan: (16:03) I am also coming from WT5. Why are all my ICANN-related meetings on the same day? :-(
Olga Cavalli - ISOC Argentina: (16:04) Hi colleagues! so many friends from WT5!!!
Glenn McKnight(NARALO): (16:04) HI Olga
Olga Cavalli - ISOC Argentina: (16:04) Hi Glenn!
hadia.elminiawi: (16:05) Heloo all
hadia.elminiawi: (16:05) Hello all
Greg Shatan: (16:06) I could generate a redline between old and new shortly.
Alan Greenberg: (16:07) Not a redline but includes a list of substantive differences: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_public-2Dcomments_org-2Drenewal-2D2019-2D03-2D18-2Den&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=VzyS0eMsX-1lealFqxbj9BzkPgLWXn5RDkzDSFRVAxA&s=nuitcd_jA3CwlrAHbd8AOI2-fg4-rlDPiU0jWa4TXQY&e=
Holly Raiche: (16:07) 2Greg - that would be great
George Kirikos: (16:08) They'll be very, very different, indeed.
Justine Chew: (16:09) Agree with Alan's comment -- we will probably have to study and highlight changes ourselves
Andrea Glandon: (16:10) https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_document_d_1TLUp-5FpB8-2DWPeMTXv282P-2Dd5xwnbc7FmAn9Y-2DQcyRgYo_edit&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=VzyS0eMsX-1lealFqxbj9BzkPgLWXn5RDkzDSFRVAxA&s=EhVYtQNMsoPpGW6ao1RoybLV9T1IYZDAiHfjF_D8Uk8&e=
Marita Moll: (16:11) Nopt -- that's the talking points
Greg Shatan: (16:12) @Holly, I will now change my name to 2Greg, so I am cool like 2Chainz.
Holly Raiche: (16:13) @Greg - all due to mistype
Marita Moll: (16:13) It has not been circulated as far as I know. I already commented to Evin
George Kirikos: (16:13) Just over 1 page, 2 minute read.
Justine Chew: (16:15) So the purpose of this ICANN64 Policy Discussion Summary is like At-Large's version of an ICANN Meeting Communique?
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (16:15) @Marita: it was shared in the CPWG on its last call --- but yes, next steps might well be to share it with the wider ALAC & Regional Leaders --- and a finalised version perhaps to go to all ALSes & individual members, as a summary of the policy discussions we have had at ICANN64
Maureen Hilyard: (16:17) @Justine - This is more the At-Large Policy Discussion "Communique" but a lot of people don't like "communique" so Summary as Jonathan has already entitled it seems appropriate
George Kirikos: (16:18) Wouldn't detection be visible via the end-user's inbox, etc? I've not seen much of an increase, personally, over the last year (although, that's obviously not a statistically valid sample!).
Greg Shatan: (16:18) @Justine, I thought this was largely an internal report, though it will be publicly posted. The GAC Communiques contain official GAC Advice, which is very consequential as we know. I think At Large’s version of the GAC Communique will be the Advice that we are discussing separately.
Maureen Hilyard: (16:19) But I agree with Olivier, that it is an easy-to-read summary to go to ALSes
Justine Chew: (16:19) @Maureen: Noted on "communique" hence the "At-Large's version of" but Greg's point is also noted. But the purpose for it is GREAT! :) I like it a lot, per Marita's explanation.
Justine Chew: (16:21) @Marita, Jonathan, Evin: I would add at the end a invitation/call to interested At-Large members to join the CPWG.
Holly Raiche: (16:22) Such a document is always useful to go back to our own ALS as well
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: (16:23) this type of stuff could be posted to the proposed At-Large blog
Greg Shatan: (16:24) Hand
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: (16:24) https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__bitly.com_atlargedemoblog&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=VzyS0eMsX-1lealFqxbj9BzkPgLWXn5RDkzDSFRVAxA&s=qOmSlUdTp2gOQPcaeu-JfhHfqH2s9bzcujR7PQPTlho&e=
Glenn M: (16:25) k
Evin Erdogdu: (16:25) Thank you @Justine, noted
Greg Shatan: (16:25) <<card up emoji>>
Justine Chew: (16:25) +1 Jonathan and John for speaking to Don to make At-Large potential contributions to the UA cause more manageable
hadia.elminiawi: (16:26) I have my hand up too
hadia.elminiawi: (16:26) before greg
Evin Erdogdu: (16:26) :)
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (16:26) Hadia also had her hand up
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (16:26) ...And still has :-)
Maureen Hilyard: (16:28) +1 Greg
Marita Moll: (16:28) @Greg -- yes, not necesarily communique. It was just an model. I think we need to report -- somehow -- to your members
Justine Chew: (16:29) I think members who were at ICANN64 can comment on the "balance" of the ideas discussed at those sessions.
Justine Chew: (16:30) Not meant to be formal Advice I think.
Maureen Hilyard: (16:30) As per our usual ALAC statements, we try to incorporate a balance of ideas..
Justine Chew: (16:30) Can we move on?
Alan Greenberg: (16:31) We are 30 minutes into the call .
Greg Shatan: (16:32) Understood — but I want to provide my brief thoughts on the taxonomy of At-Large documentation. I will put my full remarks into the Record. ;-)
Marita Moll: (16:33) THanks Jonathan for agreeing to take another pass on it. This is something we might be experimenting with -- maybe won't get it totally right the first time. But the goal would be to create a process that works for every meeting.
Holly Raiche: (16:33) @ Alan - welcome to ALAC and WG calls - which have almost always gone over time - and yes, with a long succession of various chairs
Justine Chew: (16:33) +1 Marita
hadia.elminiawi: (16:35) Thank you
Greg Shatan: (16:35) @Holly, I think Alan may have been on some prior ALAC and WG calls, but I could be mistaken.
Andrea Glandon: (16:35) https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_ithi&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=VzyS0eMsX-1lealFqxbj9BzkPgLWXn5RDkzDSFRVAxA&s=oo2QBKDRr8UscwJRtRS2ZNJKAFaS60dpVZFYORN5XeE&e=
Alan Greenberg: (16:36) @Greg - just a few... And MANY that completed their agenda and ended on time.
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (16:36) ok --- so this is NOT about ITHI
Justine Chew: (16:38) @Holly, I certainly found the Emerging Technology Indicators session as interesting as you did.
@ Eduardo Diaz: (16:38) I am interested
Justine Chew: (16:39) Should be posted on the ICANN64 schedule
Justine Chew: (16:40) Hey I like Rocket Science
Justine Chew: (16:49) @Alan, so are you and Hadia recommending that ALAC act to put this (back) on the table?
Alan Greenberg: (16:51) We could try at the level of the EPDP, but I would not think we will be successful. Thus the recommendation to make the point to the Board. I know there are Board members who are not aware that thick is effectively gone with the EPDP.
Greg Shatan: (16:53) Isn’t there a related process point, that the EPDP Charter asked that the group refer issues on other policies out to other groups rather than just disposing of all things itself?
Maureen Hilyard: (16:54) Hi all, I have to leave now.. Take care
hadia.elminiawi: (16:54) sorry for that
Andrea Glandon: (16:54) Thank you, Maureen
Greg Shatan: (16:54) Whether or not there was much of a discussion, there certainly seemed to be a resolution. Which is a helluva process... We go from too much discussion to too little.
Justine Chew: (16:55) @Alan, sure. I agree to what you are saying and suggesting. @Hadia, noted. (Hence the "back" because I wasn't sure but) I would support putting it on the table for discussion in whatever way is most effective.
Justine Chew: (16:56) *(.. "(back)") I mean
Greg Shatan: (16:58) As far as I know, the EPDP never gave any detailed consideration to privacy/data protection regimes of other jurisdictions (perhaps because that would have been out of scope). Instead, it was just used as a mantra.
Bartlett Morgan: (17:00) that assessment sounds about right @Greg
Justine Chew: (17:00) Just back-tracking: the slides that Holly mentioned with regards to DoH and DoT in the ICANN64 Emerging Identifiers Technology session is found at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__static.ptbl.co_static_attachments_200822_1552364329.pdf-3F1552364329&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=VzyS0eMsX-1lealFqxbj9BzkPgLWXn5RDkzDSFRVAxA&s=cDH4MG2hDJonFdyzKC2CWSa013vJJir38KaogiYT8_c&e=
hadia.elminiawi: (17:01) thank you Justine
@ Eduardo Diaz: (17:03) Need to move on. I suggest that we cover de EPDP at the beggining of these calls
Jonathan Zuck: (17:03) makes sense
Justine Chew: (17:03) @Alan, @Hadia: I'm suppport the suggestion to bring to Board's attention the divergence between what the EPDP Chair said and what's (not) contained in the report on Geographic Differentiation.
Justine Chew: (17:07) @Alan, @Hadia: I'm also supportive of action to be taken for Legal/Natural Person Differentiation.
Bartlett Morgan: (17:07) I must drop off now. Take care all
hadia.elminiawi: (17:08) Bye Barlett
Greg Shatan: (17:10) All persons are natural persons and all entities are EU entities. I get it.
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (17:11) I have trouble understanding Hadia --- oh getting better as I am typing this
Marita Moll: (17:11) I am not arguing the fact of the case -- just that I find it inappropriate to include in this document
George Kirikos: (17:11) I'm sure their tax agencies would like that reasoning, Greg. $$$$$$
Greg Shatan: (17:12) George, you might give them ideas.... :-(
Andrea Glandon: (17:12) Hadia, can you move closer to your phone?
hadia.elminiawi: (17:12) ok
Justine Chew: (17:12) @Marita: I think of it as putting on notice At-Large's position and the (re-)stating of challenges in altering any position against those with vested interest.
Tracy Hackshaw: (17:12) Have to drop off now. Thanks all. Have a good rest of your day.
Justine Chew: (17:13) I should be specific: "Those with vested interest" means contracted parties.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: (17:14) Have to drop off now - take care all
Marita Moll: (17:15) We can't be seen as whining because we don't like the way it is going
Justine Chew: (17:15) +1 Alan
Greg Shatan: (17:15) Side with the vested interests....
Marita Moll: (17:15) Extternal studies are a now angle -- that would give it some more validity IMHO
Marita Moll: (17:16) Sorry -- meant new angle
Greg Shatan: (17:16) Anything ICANN does beyond compliance with GDPR is de novo ICANN policy — so “GDPR for legal persons” is just pure policy-making.
Evin Erdogdu: (17:17) First draft on At-Large workspace: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/x/R34eBg
Greg Shatan: (17:17) As an “impact study” that would be a miserable failure.
Greg Shatan: (17:18) “Impact for me but not for thee” does not work.
Greg Shatan: (17:19) A balanced impact study would be worthwhile.
hadia.elminiawi: (17:19) @Greg totally agree Einstein definition of insanity "doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results" - external studies is important and has already been discussed in phase 1, we are not targeting an impact study - but a how study
Jonathan Zuck: (17:19) i'm done
Greg Shatan: (17:19) French hold music.
Marita Moll: (17:19) Okay, bye -- see you next week -- and on the list
Justine Chew: (17:19) Reminder on wiki page and mailing list.
Greg Shatan: (17:20) Let’s do substance on the wiki, even though I’m a mailinglistista.
Alan Greenberg: (17:20) And I need to leave now. Thanks all.
hadia.elminiawi: (17:20) bye alan
George Kirikos: (17:21) .asia is a few days later. They'll likely be quite similar.
George Kirikos: (17:21) https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_public-2Dcomments&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=VzyS0eMsX-1lealFqxbj9BzkPgLWXn5RDkzDSFRVAxA&s=p9eV7kXlnFWSAYAVT_y1bCWsJFxplAVmzg7NHPC4Llo&e=
Greg Shatan: (17:21) I guess we can depend on staff to transcribe the email comments to the Wiki....
hadia.elminiawi: (17:21) @greg is this "mailinglistista" a term
Greg Shatan: (17:22) I made it up.
hadia.elminiawi: (17:22) :)
Justine Chew: (17:22) @Jonathan: I will help you look at .org and .info RA; will do the same with .asia RA to Maureen.
Greg Shatan: (17:22) I will circulate whatever results.
Andrea Glandon: (17:23) 10 April 2019 13:00 UTC for the next call
hadia.elminiawi: (17:24) Thank you all - bye
George Kirikos: (17:24) Bye folks.