ALAC ExCom 12.10.11 Chat transcript

Matt Ashtiani: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/alacexcomm/pages/106040035/ALAC+ExCom+27.09.11+Action+Items

Matt Ashtiani: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/atlarge/pages/99539106/ALAC+Meeting+27.09.2011+Action+Items

Heidi Ullrich: Gisella has joined the call. 

Heidi Ullrich: 2012-2015 SP Workspace: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/display/alacpolicydev/Strategic+Plan+2012-15

Evan Leibovitch: I barely remember what I said at the beginning of this call, let alone last year

CLO: LOL

Evan Leibovitch: video of olivier in Singapore: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0n8N98mpes

Tijani: Cheryl, have you nominated her?

Tijani: please do

CLO: I will do this nomination  later today then...   with appropeiate explanatory note and reference to me raising this at this meeting in concept...

Alan Greenberg: Sorry, was unavoidably tied up. Dialing now.

Alan Greenberg: In now.

Alan Greenberg: My hand seems to have disappeared!

Olivier Crepin-Leblond: I was wondering why you had taken it down

Evan Leibovitch: it's there now

Olivier Crepin-Leblond: you're next Alan

Evan Leibovitch: (of course, putting us on an equivalent position as the GAC doesn't mean much if the GAC is also ignored....)

CLO: I use a metric for myself on this matter  as well *not with reference to just the JAS^*   and that is a measure of how many times  ALAC  used to be mentioned by Board resolution and by the other SO's and AC's  of ALAC in resolutions, creation of  Study teams and Wg's  etc., and reports  etc.,   it has grown  Expotentially  from  Never  and us onky being reped at thr public mike  in 2005  to where we are now

CLO: Sorry  thst is garbelled

Heidi Ullrich: Adigo has remuted Tijani's line

CLO: it should read at the end => it has grown  Expotentially  from  Never  and us only being represented at the public mike  in 2005  to where we are now A HUGE difference!

Heidi Ullrich: Matt, lay off of the espresso ;)

CLO: LOL

Evan Leibovitch: IMO At-Large should take a more long-term (and higher-level) approach to the issue of conflict of interest

CLO: we rwised that IN our  comments  Evan  yes

CLO: and we well hear more ICANN wide on this  soon  if activity in other so's is to be measured correctly

Evan Leibovitch: mouse or mouth?

Olivier Crepin-Leblond: Cheryl's mouth works. Her mouse does not.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond: Pun intended. We'll see the transcripts.

Evan Leibovitch: What is our stance on Malvinas/Falklands :-)

Heidi Ullrich: A new PC was posted today: Framework of Interpretation Working Group – Interim Report (closes 1 December 2011)

Heidi Ullrich: it has been added to the ExCom agenda

CLO: that is one of MANY issues that complicate  the  'pure' RIR  model approach

CLO: I'll own that point  Heidi

CLO: and raise it in Dakar  for broef  discussion  please

Alan Greenberg: Will we have formal hotel assignments which I beleive are a pre-requisite for us to actually meet in Dakar?

CLO: it relates  to the NARALO  task force as well meeting in Dakar  so they need toi loof at this FoI INTERIM report

Evan Leibovitch: NB that the thirsday schedule does not include the Future Challenges WG meeting, 12:30-13:30 -- this has been deliberately left off the publicly viewable schedule at the request of the Co-Chairs

CLO: Much to my chargrin  Tijani  and it is DAVE  nit  Rob

CLO: Rob is acting as a reporter of  WG deliberations

Evan Leibovitch: NOBODY is against metrics. It's what's done with them that's at issue

CLO: Who CAN  act on them\  not so easy

CLO: it falls within the RoP's  review  yes

Tijani: I dropped

Tijani: Plz let Adigo call me

Heidi Ullrich: Gisella is not able to get a signal. 

Evan Leibovitch: So... does this mean At-Large creates its own ATRT? :-)

CLO: yes the word IS an issue

Heidi Ullrich: Tijani is back

CLO: it is NOT   just a phylosophical debate

CLO: far from it

CLO: yes  we undertake a morl contract woth who we represent  IMO 

CLO: moral  contract

CLO: there IS a duty of care iun adviocacy roles

Alan Greenberg: participate, or withdraw if that is not possible.

CLO: in advocacy roles

CLO: yup

CLO: I agree Alan

CLO: but how to have that as the expectations  is the issue

CLO: the Nexus  is at the RALO and ALAC  interface  YES

CLO: but  that scenario has  effects on the ALAC  oporational stability and success

CLO: we do see why we need ALL the time on the single Hot  topic though OCL

CLO: yes  the scenario Evan out  couod 'cripple an ALAC'  if not carefully balanced

CLO: Yes  there needs to be a wider  Process review  as part of the RoP review  Alan  I agree

Evan Leibovitch: Something the ALAC may think is "crippling" might be exactly what the RALO wants. If ALAC is out of touch with the RALOs, it is *their* call how to deal with this.

Alan Greenberg: Correct Evan. But that is why we need flexibility in how re respond if there  is a PERCEIVED problem.

CLO: we need to look to ensuring an effective ALAC as a priority  though  change on topics  can be rought by RALOs in a number of ways not just by ALAC seating   

CLO: thus the nexus  point needing toi be explored fully and WITG the RALOs

CLO: WITH the RALOs

Evan Leibovitch: I will just give my last response by suggesting that "effective" is in the eye of the beholder. What ALAC thinks is effective may not match the RALOs' perception of this.

Heidi Ullrich: Agenda items for ALAC/Board formal meeting: 

Heidi Ullrich: Agenda:1.  JAS WG Outcomes          2.  ATRT Phase II Implementationa. ALAC/Board communications protocolsb. Outreach3. 2012-2015 Strategic Plan4. Board view on handling pressure to reform    

CLO: I agree woth Evan  we can  'chew the fat' and grow trust and understanding in the meal

Alan Greenberg: I agree with Evan as well.

Heidi Ullrich: Wed: ALAC lunch with the BoardTime: 12:00 - 13:00 

Alan Greenberg: I thought that we were being promoted to dinner this meeting!!???

CLO: na  we fell back to lunch

Alan Greenberg: Rats. Based on my GNSO experieince, the difference is SUBSTANTIAL.

CLO: yup

CLO: at lunch everyone is thinking  of the afternoons activities

Alan Greenberg: ALso just not a lot of time factoring in those who arrive late and those who must leave early.

Alan Greenberg: Yes, and time in the buffet line

CLO: Thank you Tijani  I look forward to continuing that support as well

Evan Leibovitch: sorry, have to step away for just a minute or two

Evan Leibovitch: back

Heidi Ullrich: no, we have not received any information

Evan Leibovitch: I would also like to reserve the ability for the FC WG to run long -- overlapping the start of the Forum -- should we see a real burst of creative energy happening there.

Heidi Ullrich: For the At-Large in Dakar Group Chat, should all of the AFRALO ALS reps be added? 

Evan Leibovitch: @heidi, IMO, yes. everyone in At-Large in Dakar -- ALAC or not -- should be on the chat.

CLO: YUP

Evan Leibovitch: @ Tijani... how many of the ALS reps have difficulty with English? Skype doesn't offer simultaneous translation.

CLO: Notice  i do note our time is slipping away  BUT  I do have some AoB that needs to be under CHR and In Camera so we need t stop recording  and ask only ExCom & Heidi to stay on the call

CLO: it will be brief I trust

Alan Greenberg: CHR?

Olivier Crepin-Leblond: Chatham House Rules

Alan Greenberg: Ahh!

Evan Leibovitch: I prefer Cider House Rules.

Evan Leibovitch: From Wikipedia: When a meeting, or part thereof, is held under the Chatham House Rule, participants are free to use the information received, but neither the identity nor the affiliation of the speaker(s), nor that of any other participant, may be revealed

Alan Greenberg: Familiar with the concept, just didn't key onto the initials.

Evan Leibovitch: There is an opportunity to leave a comment in BigPulse when voting, though I'm not aware of anyone using it.

Heidi Ullrich: Staff will send out reminders to those nominated to accept their nomination (if they wish to do so) and submit an COI. 

Evan Leibovitch: Doesn't the .XXX contract include a similar provision?

CLO: I think their IO*whatever*  board  cover that

Heidi Ullrich: Adigo is still trying to get Tijani

Heidi Ullrich: Tijani, your line has been muted
Matt Ashtiani: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/alacexcomm/pages/106040035/ALAC+ExCom+27.09.11+Action+Items

Matt Ashtiani: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/atlarge/pages/99539106/ALAC+Meeting+27.09.2011+Action+Items

Heidi Ullrich: Gisella has joined the call. 

Heidi Ullrich: 2012-2015 SP Workspace: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/display/alacpolicydev/Strategic+Plan+2012-15

Evan Leibovitch: I barely remember what I said at the beginning of this call, let alone last year

CLO: LOL

Evan Leibovitch: video of olivier in Singapore: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0n8N98mpes

Tijani: Cheryl, have you nominated her?

Tijani: please do

CLO: I will do this nomination  later today then...   with appropeiate explanatory note and reference to me raising this at this meeting in concept...

Alan Greenberg: Sorry, was unavoidably tied up. Dialing now.

Alan Greenberg: In now.

Alan Greenberg: My hand seems to have disappeared!

Olivier Crepin-Leblond: I was wondering why you had taken it down

Evan Leibovitch: it's there now

Olivier Crepin-Leblond: you're next Alan

Evan Leibovitch: (of course, putting us on an equivalent position as the GAC doesn't mean much if the GAC is also ignored....)

CLO: I use a metric for myself on this matter  as well *not with reference to just the JAS^*   and that is a measure of how many times  ALAC  used to be mentioned by Board resolution and by the other SO's and AC's  of ALAC in resolutions, creation of  Study teams and Wg's  etc., and reports  etc.,   it has grown  Expotentially  from  Never  and us onky being reped at thr public mike  in 2005  to where we are now

CLO: Sorry  thst is garbelled

Heidi Ullrich: Adigo has remuted Tijani's line

CLO: it should read at the end => it has grown  Expotentially  from  Never  and us only being represented at the public mike  in 2005  to where we are now A HUGE difference!

Heidi Ullrich: Matt, lay off of the espresso ;)

CLO: LOL

Evan Leibovitch: IMO At-Large should take a more long-term (and higher-level) approach to the issue of conflict of interest

CLO: we rwised that IN our  comments  Evan  yes

CLO: and we well hear more ICANN wide on this  soon  if activity in other so's is to be measured correctly

Evan Leibovitch: mouse or mouth?

Olivier Crepin-Leblond: Cheryl's mouth works. Her mouse does not.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond: Pun intended. We'll see the transcripts.

Evan Leibovitch: What is our stance on Malvinas/Falklands :-)

Heidi Ullrich: A new PC was posted today: Framework of Interpretation Working Group – Interim Report (closes 1 December 2011)

Heidi Ullrich: it has been added to the ExCom agenda

CLO: that is one of MANY issues that complicate  the  'pure' RIR  model approach

CLO: I'll own that point  Heidi

CLO: and raise it in Dakar  for broef  discussion  please

Alan Greenberg: Will we have formal hotel assignments which I beleive are a pre-requisite for us to actually meet in Dakar?

CLO: it relates  to the NARALO  task force as well meeting in Dakar  so they need toi loof at this FoI INTERIM report

Evan Leibovitch: NB that the thirsday schedule does not include the Future Challenges WG meeting, 12:30-13:30 -- this has been deliberately left off the publicly viewable schedule at the request of the Co-Chairs

CLO: Much to my chargrin  Tijani  and it is DAVE  nit  Rob

CLO: Rob is acting as a reporter of  WG deliberations

Evan Leibovitch: NOBODY is against metrics. It's what's done with them that's at issue

CLO: Who CAN  act on them\  not so easy

CLO: it falls within the RoP's  review  yes

Tijani: I dropped

Tijani: Plz let Adigo call me

Heidi Ullrich: Gisella is not able to get a signal. 

Evan Leibovitch: So... does this mean At-Large creates its own ATRT? :-)

CLO: yes the word IS an issue

Heidi Ullrich: Tijani is back

CLO: it is NOT   just a phylosophical debate

CLO: far from it

CLO: yes  we undertake a morl contract woth who we represent  IMO 

CLO: moral  contract

CLO: there IS a duty of care iun adviocacy roles

Alan Greenberg: participate, or withdraw if that is not possible.

CLO: in advocacy roles

CLO: yup

CLO: I agree Alan

CLO: but how to have that as the expectations  is the issue

CLO: the Nexus  is at the RALO and ALAC  interface  YES

CLO: but  that scenario has  effects on the ALAC  oporational stability and success

CLO: we do see why we need ALL the time on the single Hot  topic though OCL

CLO: yes  the scenario Evan out  couod 'cripple an ALAC'  if not carefully balanced

CLO: Yes  there needs to be a wider  Process review  as part of the RoP review  Alan  I agree

Evan Leibovitch: Something the ALAC may think is "crippling" might be exactly what the RALO wants. If ALAC is out of touch with the RALOs, it is *their* call how to deal with this.

Alan Greenberg: Correct Evan. But that is why we need flexibility in how re respond if there  is a PERCEIVED problem.

CLO: we need to look to ensuring an effective ALAC as a priority  though  change on topics  can be rought by RALOs in a number of ways not just by ALAC seating   

CLO: thus the nexus  point needing toi be explored fully and WITG the RALOs

CLO: WITH the RALOs

Evan Leibovitch: I will just give my last response by suggesting that "effective" is in the eye of the beholder. What ALAC thinks is effective may not match the RALOs' perception of this.

Heidi Ullrich: Agenda items for ALAC/Board formal meeting: 

Heidi Ullrich: Agenda:1.  JAS WG Outcomes          2.  ATRT Phase II Implementationa. ALAC/Board communications protocolsb. Outreach3. 2012-2015 Strategic Plan4. Board view on handling pressure to reform    

CLO: I agree woth Evan  we can  'chew the fat' and grow trust and understanding in the meal

Alan Greenberg: I agree with Evan as well.

Heidi Ullrich: Wed: ALAC lunch with the BoardTime: 12:00 - 13:00 

Alan Greenberg: I thought that we were being promoted to dinner this meeting!!???

CLO: na  we fell back to lunch

Alan Greenberg: Rats. Based on my GNSO experieince, the difference is SUBSTANTIAL.

CLO: yup

CLO: at lunch everyone is thinking  of the afternoons activities

Alan Greenberg: ALso just not a lot of time factoring in those who arrive late and those who must leave early.

Alan Greenberg: Yes, and time in the buffet line

CLO: Thank you Tijani  I look forward to continuing that support as well

Evan Leibovitch: sorry, have to step away for just a minute or two

Evan Leibovitch: back

Heidi Ullrich: no, we have not received any information

Evan Leibovitch: I would also like to reserve the ability for the FC WG to run long -- overlapping the start of the Forum -- should we see a real burst of creative energy happening there.

Heidi Ullrich: For the At-Large in Dakar Group Chat, should all of the AFRALO ALS reps be added? 

Evan Leibovitch: @heidi, IMO, yes. everyone in At-Large in Dakar -- ALAC or not -- should be on the chat.

CLO: YUP

Evan Leibovitch: @ Tijani... how many of the ALS reps have difficulty with English? Skype doesn't offer simultaneous translation.

CLO: Notice  i do note our time is slipping away  BUT  I do have some AoB that needs to be under CHR and In Camera so we need t stop recording  and ask only ExCom & Heidi to stay on the call

CLO: it will be brief I trust

Alan Greenberg: CHR?

Olivier Crepin-Leblond: Chatham House Rules

Alan Greenberg: Ahh!

Evan Leibovitch: I prefer Cider House Rules.

Evan Leibovitch: From Wikipedia: When a meeting, or part thereof, is held under the Chatham House Rule, participants are free to use the information received, but neither the identity nor the affiliation of the speaker(s), nor that of any other participant, may be revealed

Alan Greenberg: Familiar with the concept, just didn't key onto the initials.

Evan Leibovitch: There is an opportunity to leave a comment in BigPulse when voting, though I'm not aware of anyone using it.

Heidi Ullrich: Staff will send out reminders to those nominated to accept their nomination (if they wish to do so) and submit an COI. 

Evan Leibovitch: Doesn't the .XXX contract include a similar provision?

CLO: I think their IO*whatever*  board  cover that

Heidi Ullrich: Adigo is still trying to get Tijani

Heidi Ullrich: Tijani, your line has been muted