Zoom chat: 2023-08-30 At-Large Consolidated Policy Working Group (CPWG)
- Michelle DeSmyter
00:16:33 Alfredo Calderon: Good morning, afternoon or evening to all!
00:16:40 Hadia Elminiawi: Welcome all
00:16:53 Laura Margolis - Internet Society Uruguay: Hello!
00:17:33 AM Joly Bachollet: Hello
00:17:39 Mouloud Khelif: Actually, “cancel” my apology, found a way to join
00:18:24 Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: Replying to "Actually, “cancel” m..."
Noted, thank you Mouloud!
00:19:08 Gopal Tadepalli: Greetings. - Dr. T V Gopal, Professor, Department of Computer Science and Engineering, College of Engineering, Guindy Campus, Anna University , Chennai, INDIA.
00:20:02 Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: We will add to the agenda
00:21:19 Michael Palage: Another reason to attend Hamburg - looking forward to seeing you in person Christopher
00:22:54 Michael Palage: +1 on Evan's comments
00:23:40 Hadia Elminiawi: @Christopher Wilkinson Evan raised many issues, are we going to talk only about A-Large mandate and strategies?
00:23:59 Betty Fausta: Christopher is a part of Internet pioneers actors in life and many informations and good standards to share.
00:25:15 Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: To follow along with the RTT: https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
00:25:30 Mouloud Khelif: Reacted to "Another reason to at..." with
00:25:41 Mouloud Khelif: Reacted to "@Christopher Wilkins..." with
00:25:50 Mouloud Khelif: Reacted to "Christopher is a par..." with
00:26:07 Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org: Action Items: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=99695175
00:26:10 Mouloud Khelif: Reacted to "Noted, thank you Mou..." with
00:26:17 Judith Hellerstein: Also there is a draft at large schedule already out and is being discussed on the weekly planning calls
00:26:32 Michael Palage: Jonathan, can you share your decisional flow chart via the CPWG mailing list after you dust it off
00:26:38 Jonathan Zuck: @Christopher Wilkinson , I supposed I’m most focused on the At-Large agenda and mandate. Part of that mandate might turn out to be taking on some of the other issues.
00:26:50 Judith Hellerstein: Perhaps Heidi can post it to this chat
00:30:28 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: Evan's comment on pricing and registration fees were problematic in that they would disproportionately impact registrants and prospective registrants in developing markets.
00:33:59 Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org: @All, we will circulate an updated block schedule when it is available. The current At-Large schedule is available at: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Sm9JAem59g7eEq3FCUXkirBd7rWk9F3WY4p4Auhtacg/edit#gid=0
00:34:35 Jonathan Zuck: @John McCormac - HosterStats.com , for sure. Of course, we might want to look for a price floor to minimize the resources for DNS abuse.
00:34:56 Christopher Wilkinson: @Hadia: Needless to say that I donp't want to discuss At Lardge mandate that excludes competition and anti-tdrust…1
00:35:56 Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: To follow along with the RTT: https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
00:36:48 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @JZ It is the impact of the increases that worries me. $2 might be nothing to some and a lot for others. The price floor is almost a separate issue but a very important one because some registrars/gTLDs would not be commercially viable without being able to heavily discount the reg fee.
00:38:14 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @JZ The heavy discounting model allows some marginal gTLDs to survive but it has also changed the economics of DNS Abuse
00:39:45 Jonathan Zuck: @John McCormac - HosterStats.com, pricing is an interesting issue, to be sure. Even in underserved economies, higher prices to individual registrants is not likely to make an enormous difference. Something to study further.
00:40:24 Chokri Ben Romdhane: +1 @Alan Greenberg
00:41:08 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @JZ It may encourage registrants to opt for the cheaper gTLD. (This has happened to some extent with .COM and some of the larger new gTLDs.) And ccTLDs may also benefit.
00:41:28 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: :-)
00:41:44 Jonathan Zuck: And there’s a rich history of NGO participation in discussions of anti-trust. So some amount of vigilance is appropriate.
00:42:00 Michael Palage: It would help if John Jeffery could answer my concern and give guidance to the WG
00:42:16 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: +1 Michael
00:43:04 Jonathan Zuck: @John McCormac - HosterStats.com sure, that’s the benefit of competition. I know you keep raising it but few folks understand the competition COM faces from cc
00:43:30 Jonathan Zuck: I
00:44:00 Jonathan Zuck: I did NOT say that antitrust was outside our mandate. I think it probably is, in some form or another.
00:44:41 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @JZ The ccTLDs only have to concentrate on their market whereas ICANN and the gTLDs are generally in a global market.
00:44:55 Jonathan Zuck: Of course
00:47:34 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: Once the ccTLDs develop momentum, it is very difficult for gTLDs to compete. The .DESI should have been a success but its market was too dispersed and it was facing competition from .IN ccTLD and from .COM.
00:49:50 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: What is the Status Quo? That Closed Generics are a non issue, isn't it?
00:49:58 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: 2012 rules
00:50:24 Jonathan Zuck: No, OCL, 2012 rules do NOT prevent closed generics
00:50:42 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: that's what I mean - a non issue
00:50:52 Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: To follow along with the RTT: https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
00:50:58 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: no rules on closed generics
00:51:03 Jonathan Zuck: Hmm. I would say that makes them an issue.
00:51:59 Justine Chew: @OCL, the GAC Beijing Communique still stands and that's something that the Board still has to deal with.
00:52:06 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: so the 2012 default is that there are no rules on Closed Generics. Some people will be delighted about that
00:55:30 avri doria: but the 2012 also has GAC advise to deal with,
00:55:36 Jonathan Zuck: Default is that they are allowed
00:56:03 avri doria: there is no default as far as I can personally tell.
00:56:19 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: ah ha! So the issue is still open then?
00:56:44 Hadia Elminiawi: @Jonathan Zuck they are allowed but non were actually passed
00:56:57 Gopal Tadepalli: I am sorry. The internet connection is unstable. I am on and off on this meeting. I will leave now. I will catch up later. Sorry again. - Dr. T V Gopal, Anna University
00:56:58 Jonathan Zuck: Well, @avri doria , the absence of policy on CGs would imply the default is that such applications are allowed.
00:57:26 Jonathan Zuck: Agree @Hadia Elminiawi . Just trying to answer OCLs specific question.
00:57:26 Laura Margolis - Internet Society Uruguay: Reacted to "Well, @avri doria , ..." with
00:57:40 Hadia Elminiawi: Reacted to "Agree @Hadia Elmin..." with
00:58:41 Jonathan Zuck: It’s for EVERYONE to tell the board what to do!
00:59:25 Betty Fausta: with experiences and without conflics of interest.
00:59:28 Jonathan Zuck: Nope
01:01:51 avri doria: Replying to "Well, @avri doria , ..."
yes, but we have GAC advise that say not to without consideration of public interest. That has to be dealt with now for this round.
01:02:09 Jonathan Zuck: Agree Avri
01:02:33 Justine Chew: Correct @Greg Shatan
01:02:50 avri doria: Replying to "It’s for EVERYONE to..."
Yes, but policy recommendations come from a very specific bylaws determined manner. So sure tell the board what to do, but that isn't a policy recommendation.
01:03:48 Jonathan Zuck: Reacted to "Yes, but policy reco..." with
01:04:53 Jonathan Zuck: Eeek!
01:05:06 Justine Chew: @Alan, LOL I don't think it will come to that.
01:05:54 Justine Chew: @Alan, I am merely relaying the "conversation" that transpired at the Council, very succintly.
01:06:14 avri doria: Replying to "Eeek!"
hey, all Board members have to sign a resignation letter the day they start as Board members. The feeling of eek becomes old hat.
01:06:59 avri doria: Replying to "Eeek!"
At least until the day someone is actually kicked out of office.
01:07:48 Justine Chew: @Olivier, I can also defer my update and just deal with 2 short matters.
01:08:04 Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: To follow along with the RTT: https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
01:08:22 Judith Hellerstein: @Justine Chew Happy Malaysia day to you
01:08:25 Sivasubramanian M: Is it ceremonial, like a board with a new member is a new board, the old board considered dissolved?
01:08:45 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: +1 for the incubator idea. Good that it's included.
01:09:42 Justine Chew: Replying to "@Justine Chew Happy ..."
It's Malaysia's Independence Day tomoroow. Malaysia Day is on the 16th Sep. But thank you. It's a public holiday but I will still be working.
01:10:53 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: Replying to "@Olivier, I can also..."
Yes please Justine - that would be helpful
01:11:41 Mouloud Khelif: I have to leave for another call, thank you everyone
01:13:58 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: The draft African DNS market report and the upcoming MEAC market report will feed into this process and provide data. At the moment, all ICANN has is the work from the CCT and from the 2015 MEAC and 2016 African market reports and it is a very different market today.
01:15:31 Hadia Elminiawi: @John McCormac - HosterStats.com I think th MEAC market study has not started yet
01:15:35 Judith Hellerstein: Replying to "@Justine Chew Happy …"
Sorry. US state department called Independence Day as Malaysia day as they probably were not aware that there was an actual malaysia day on another day in September
01:15:45 Hadia Elminiawi: The new one
01:16:02 Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: All presentations are located on today’s wiki agenda page: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=99678890#PDPs-929257560
01:16:17 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Hadia Yes. I think it is the applications phase.
01:16:47 Laura Margolis - Internet Society Uruguay: Reacted to "All presentations ar..." with
01:17:12 Jonathan Zuck: That’s an optimistic conclusion but we are hopeful
01:17:39 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Hadia I think it is due for 2024 or 2025.
01:21:18 Hadia Elminiawi: 2024
01:21:36 alberto soto: Dear,Sorry I have another meeting, Bye!
01:21:50 Hadia Elminiawi: Bye Alberto
01:22:41 Sandra Rodriguez: Reacted to "Well, @avri doria , ..." with
01:22:44 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: The worst case is that without updated reports and data, ICANN won't have data on the applicant's market and neither will the applicant. That's worrying.
01:29:21 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: I might be able to integrate one of the gTLD website>IP address surveys with the ccTLD domain name countst to get an idea of the gTLD hosting markets in various countries. I have some of the African ccTLD counts from the aftld.org website and the gTLD website IP data is in a database here.
01:37:05 Jonathan Zuck: This is #2 I thinik
01:39:38 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: Some of the Freenom ccTLDs might be worth mentioning.
01:40:32 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: Gabon terminated the agreement with Freenom a few months ago and has decided to delete a lot of free domain names.
01:44:00 Justine Chew: Should this be a country specific matter rather than At-Large per se?
01:44:10 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: The problem is that ccTLDs are accountable to their local government first and the nternet community second (at best).
01:44:46 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: ccTLD remit is defined in Framework of Interpretation
01:45:19 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: The ccTLDs are more like a confederation of fiefdoms and ICANN's model may not apply.
01:46:23 David Mackey: it’s likely that the question of institutional transparency and accountability will always raise a debate
01:46:28 Sivasubramanian M: @john it ought to apply
01:46:39 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Siva In theory. :)
01:46:59 Sivasubramanian M: Not just in theory
01:47:01 Hadia Elminiawi: All, we need to close the queue
01:47:21 Hadia Elminiawi: we are way beyond our time
01:48:27 Hadia Elminiawi: @Seb Bachollet noted
01:48:37 Betty Fausta: exactly Sebastien
01:49:11 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Siva ccTLD politics is the reality and it is always the scene of more battles over seemingly little. They are very important at a local level but not necessarily at a global level. ALAC should have some standing but it would need to work with the local Internet communities rather than seeking to impose solutions.
01:49:53 David Mackey: +1 Alan
01:50:12 Hadia Elminiawi: @Steinar Grøtterød (At-Large) ccTLDs are there for the interest and benefit of the local community
01:50:18 Satish Babu: Agree that we have the standing to comment..
01:50:29 Greg Shatan: +1 Alan
01:50:44 Jonathan Zuck: Staff can set that up
01:50:48 Sivasubramanian M: @john excluding ccTLDs give room to several complications, even in matters related to who is LDAP
01:50:58 Steinar Grøtterød (At-Large): @Hadia Elminiawi not always ….
01:51:01 Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org: @Michael Palage , the Google doc is on the workspace
01:51:06 Betty Fausta: in theory.... but many territories ignore that.
01:51:14 Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org: And we sent you the link already
01:51:19 hanan khatib: thank you everybody
01:51:36 Michael Palage: I must drop for another call, Will listen to recording - thanks everyone
01:51:41 Jonathan Zuck: @Alan Greenberg , just because we CAN comment on every public comment does NOT mean we SHOULD. That’s all I was saying.
01:52:08 Jonathan Zuck: Great discussions, everyone!
01:52:14 Hadia Elminiawi: Thank you all
01:52:23 Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org: Thanks, All
01:53:07 Hadia Elminiawi: Bye for today
01:53:08 Satish Babu: Thanks and bye!
01:53:13 Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: Thank you everyone for joining today’s CPWG meeting!
01:53:15 Betty Fausta: bye all
01:53:16 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: Thanks and later all.
01:53:17 David Mackey: bye all
01:53:18 Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org: Bye, all
01:53:19 Steinar Grøtterød (At-Large): Have a great rest of your day