Zoom chat: 2019-11-27 Consolidated Policy Working Group Call

15:36:45 From Yesim Nazlar : Welcome to the At-Large Consolidated Policy Working Group (CPWG) call taking place on Wednesday, 27 November 2019 at 13:00 UTC.
15:36:57 From Yesim Nazlar : Agenda: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/x/mi7wBQ
15:49:41 From Kristina Hakobyan : hello, everyone :)
15:50:55 From Yesim Nazlar : Hi Kristina, welcome!
15:52:29 From Katambi Joan (ISOC UGANDA) : Good evening Team, Joan from Kampala, Uganda
15:53:55 From Evin Erdoğdu : Hello all, welcome.
15:58:41 From Priyatosh Jana : Hi Everyone......
16:01:55 From Raymond Mamattah : hi Everyone. greetings from Accra, Ghana
16:02:21 From Monica Trochez : Hi everyone
16:02:31 From LILIAN IVETTE DE LUQUE : hi all
16:02:39 From Alberto Soto : Hello everyone, from Buenos Aires, Argentina!
16:05:30 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : Hi just arrived
16:06:01 From Bachollet Sebastien - ALAC : and apologize from Avri
16:06:06 From Bachollet Sebastien - ALAC : thanks
16:06:15 From Monica Trochez : i´m not on the list
16:06:18 From Hadia : hello all
16:08:16 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : So the discussions re: .org isn't on the agenda ?
16:08:28 From Omir Kerr (ISOC - SVG) : ??
16:10:45 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : Ok, I thought this was the planned single issue call re: .org
16:12:41 From Holly Raiche : There is some background noise
16:13:35 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com : Pricing is a major factor with bulk registrations. It might be worth mentioning discounting and pricing though the registry and registrars communities might not agree.
16:14:23 From Yesim Nazlar : RTT Link: https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN
16:15:00 From Yesim Nazlar : no raised hands
16:15:11 From Priyatosh Jana : please stop background noise
16:16:04 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com : Not sure that ICANN Compliance is capable of dealing with abuse in the gTLDs.
16:16:12 From Yesim Nazlar : coming from Jonathan’s line, not possible as he’s speaking now
16:16:18 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com : It is just too large a problem.
16:16:38 From BillBill Jouris : Maybe recommend explicitly that the "name and shame" threshold start high but drop over time.
16:18:12 From Carlton Samuels : Morning everybody
16:18:27 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com : Bad guys don't worry about "name and shame". Might not have the desired results.
16:19:46 From Vrikson Acosta : Greetings everyone
16:19:52 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : makes sense Alan,
16:20:10 From Carlton Samuels : For the record, it has ALWAYS been my view that everything we are asking has always been in the power of ICANN org. The 2013 RAA confers it. There is just no appetite to enforce because that would undermine the 'we are not a regulator' position of ICANN org.
16:21:28 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com : Abuse generally seems to be concentrated on a small number of registrars and gTLDs.
16:21:38 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : *timely* and specific information... perhaps JZ
16:22:16 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com : The problem is that people haven't done enough work on this and cannot quantify the problem. Therefore everything looks like a nail to people with just a hammer. There are different types of DNS abuse too.
16:22:25 From Carlton Samuels : PLUS, when it suits them they trot out the position that the RA and RAA must be construed as artefacts of consensus policy!
16:22:48 From Holly Raiche : @ John McC - that is certainly what Dave Piscatello - and others before him, have said.
16:24:19 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com : @Holly Yep. I've been going back through Domain tasting records and also working on historical registration activity. There are some clear patterns. With the new gtlds, some of the abused gtlds have around 80% or more zone replacement within a year and over 95% by year two.
16:25:42 From Carlton Samuels : @John McC. We thought to ease our way into solution and about quantifying the problem we begin with the types itemised in the RAA. We certainly can quantify those and need not reinvent the wheel. APWG denizens have means and methods available.
16:27:11 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com : @Carlton The problem with easing into the solution is that the problem keeps changing. There are shifting patterns with abuse. By the time a working group comes up with a solution, the problem may no longer exist in the same form.
16:29:33 From Carlton Samuels : @John McC. True. Absolutely, its a whackamole piece. So if we must address the abuse that is sure, the response must take on an agile formation. Form has to follow function.
16:29:39 From Hadia : @Alan indeed
16:29:47 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Thanks @Hadia and @Alan
16:29:54 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com : @Carlton. Agreed.
16:30:10 From Hadia : Thank you Cheryl
16:34:12 From Evin Erdoğdu : Invitation to Provide Input for PDP 3.0 Implementation: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/x/J4MeBg
16:34:51 From Alan Greenberg (ALAC) : Can we not kill the background noise??
16:36:08 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : background noise is where Jonathan is - a public space
16:38:11 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Indeed @Alan
16:38:35 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : and YES I too have been saying this for **quiye some time**!!!
16:38:41 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : quite
16:39:36 From Hadia : +1 alan
16:39:38 From Betty Fausta : bonjour à tous . Hello Every one . Buenas dias todos
16:45:02 From Carlos Raul Gutierrez : hello folks. I will be listening on a phone bridge because driving
16:46:28 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Well I have been saying it to the GNSO
16:47:58 From Alan Greenberg (ALAC) : Yes, Cheryl, But the ALAC has to say it formally.
16:48:50 From Alan Greenberg (ALAC) : They are more worried about efficientcy and not enough about effectiveness. A VERY dangerous methodology!
16:48:53 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : agrfee Alan I welcome a more specific Statement in response to the request for input
16:49:08 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : AGREE @Greg
16:49:44 From Carlos Raul Gutierrez : I respect Allan and Greg but I don't agree with their statements and understanding of PDP 3.0
16:50:13 From Alan Greenberg (ALAC) : Ideas that do not coincide with those of the GNSO member communities must be severley limited or banned.
16:50:29 From Carlton Samuels : @Alan: +1. The report as structured is unhelpful for clarity of intent!
16:51:13 From Marita Moll : gerrymandering/self-dealing -- very descriptive -- @Greg
16:53:15 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : you can also mention it to the ATRT3 process as we too are interested in the PDP Process and the input from the AC/SOs
16:53:49 From Carlton Samuels : I don't think what has emerged is an attempt at gerrymandering. My reading of the doc leads me to think the focus on inefficiency and leadership concerns overshadowed what I consider to be the most important objective, the result. So effectiveness needs to be reconfigured for greater clarity.
16:55:31 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : that is the advertised intent @Carlton
16:55:39 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : but... … … … … ...
16:55:43 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : SIGH
16:55:49 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Indeed @Alan
16:56:08 From Carlton Samuels : The questions: What do we measure? When do we measure? And what do we do when what we want to measure is not fortcoming?
16:59:21 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Few on the original Team other than perhaps a long time back had ever been active in PDP's and certainly not recently or current ones the exception was the Councils LT at the time And as far as we know NO interactions with any current PDP Leadership was engaged in within the design process of PDP 3.0 either... it is a design by the PDP Manager very much in isolation as a fix some issues focus.
16:59:50 From Sylvia Herlein Leite : I´m so so sorry, but I have to go.
17:01:17 From Sonigitu Ekpe : I am sorry for being late. I had other meetings.
17:04:52 From Evin Erdoğdu : Noted Alan and Olivier, thanks.
17:05:01 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh (TTCS) : Unfortunately have to leave the call. Take care all
17:05:15 From Evin Erdoğdu : Registration Directory Service (RDS-WHOIS2) Review Team Final Report: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/x/wYIeBg
17:06:55 From Greg Shatan (ISOC-NY) : As a longtime GNSO participant and observer and WG participant, I’m confident in calling it Gerrymandering. Attempts to sort relative sizes of participation can only be seen as a power play. First, to keep non-GNSO participants very limited. Second, to double down on the current GNSO Council seating chart, which was never intended to be a template for multistakeholder PDP participation. So, if you like the Council status quo, you’ll love PDP 3.0.
17:07:39 From Greg Shatan (ISOC-NY) : And you’ll be very happy that the last GNSO Review sidestepped any meaningful structural review.
17:08:37 From Roberto : Have to leave now, sorry
17:12:16 From Hadia : There are also the recommendations with regard to documentation , and the portal that will also need to be added
17:13:16 From Greg Shatan (ISOC-NY) : Going underground so I will lose you. Happy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate (or already celebrated) it.
17:13:48 From Alan Greenberg (ALAC) : And in an ideal world, I would have responded to Hadia earlier!
17:23:40 From christopher wilkinson : Apologies for arriving late. The PDP report should be kept OPEN for consultation. Specifically the WT5 Geo Chapter is so egregious regarding non AGB geo names that there should be many responses.ñ. CW
17:25:28 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : I am hardly surprised at that :-)
17:26:25 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : my last was to OCL statement not CW's comment
17:26:45 From Holly Raiche : We are discussing this in another call - no need to talk about this now
17:28:30 From Harold Arcos : @Holly, in this moment? That call is public?
17:28:31 From Holly Raiche : Sorry - leaving the call now
17:29:04 From Sivasubramanian M : issue by issue
17:29:22 From Sivasubramanian M : issue based cooperation
17:30:58 From Hadia : @people in Berlin - Happy IGF
17:31:52 From Chokri Ben Romdhane : hi all sorry for the delay
17:31:53 From Hadia : Sad loss
17:31:59 From Hadia : so sorry for that
17:33:39 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : Jimmy Schulz - In Memoriam - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Schulz
17:33:41 From Hadia : for me yes
17:33:46 From Katambi Joan (ISOC UGANDA) : I agree
17:33:48 From LILIAN IVETTE DE LUQUE : for me yes
17:33:51 From hanan khatib : I agree
17:33:56 From Katambi Joan (ISOC UGANDA) : yes
17:34:01 From Alberto Soto : Agree
17:34:28 From Alberto Soto : Thanks, bye!!
17:34:30 From LILIAN IVETTE DE LUQUE : bye all
17:34:36 From LILIAN IVETTE DE LUQUE : good call
17:34:46 From hanan khatib : thank you all
17:34:46 From Priyatosh Jana : good Bye to you all
17:34:49 From Katambi Joan (ISOC UGANDA) : very informative indeed thanks Team
17:34:56 From Yesim Nazlar : Next Call: 04 December 2019 at 20:00 UTC
17:35:11 From Jose R. Lebron : bye
17:35:12 From Priyatosh Jana : not convenient for me
17:35:12 From Carlton Samuels : Thanks all. Bye all
17:35:14 From Chokri Ben Romdhane : Thank you all
17:35:15 From Gordon Chillcott : Thanks and bye for now
17:35:27 From Anne-Marie Joly-Bachollet : Bye
17:35:28 From Betty Fausta : good bye
17:35:30 From Betty Fausta : tks
17:35:34 From Sivasubramanian M : thank you