AC Chat: 2018-12-12 Consolidated Policy Working Group Call

  Andrea Glandon: (12/12/2018 12:21) Welcome to the Consolidated Policy Working Group Call held on Wednesday, 12 December 2018 at 19:00 UTC.
  Andrea Glandon: (12:22) Wiki Agenda Page: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/x/JvrvBQ
  Evin Erdogdu: (12:49) Hello all, welcome
  Glenn McKnight: (12:52) hi
  Alan Greenberg: (12:55) I have had AC crash firefox multiple times today, so I may disappear. I will just be on the call for the first items. 1-4.
  Christopher Wilkinson: (12:58) Good evening everyone,.. Now.  CW
  Andrea Glandon: (12:58) :)
  Hadia Elminiawi - ALAC: (13:02) hello all
  Leon Sanchez: (13:03) Hello everyone
  Andrea Glandon: (13:03) If you will be speaking on today's conference, please dial into the audio bridge.  Thank you!
  Andrea Glandon: (13:04) We can also dial out to any members, if needed  Thank you!
  Holly Raiche: (13:04) Ssorry for he ignorance, but whata does FIKA stand for?
  Alan Greenberg: (13:04) It is a Swedish term that means a chat over coffeee
  Jonathan Zuck: (13:04) ok
  Holly Raiche: (13:04) Thanks Alan
  Alan Greenberg: (13:04) Or even coffee
  Evin Erdogdu: (13:04) Action Items: 2018-12-05: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/x/zLfxBQ
  Jonathan Zuck: (13:05) https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.swedishfood.com_fika&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=k7uKdjSb7_ZjItyVqrCYHo_rKms9SFxlmbYEJqG-y9I&m=NeHp2cyRf8S5tZ12_MMN0SX0CufBxoGskiczVhAKNzk&s=LyG5Y42mRYb_oUDuMC_25yfKhFIgFyOiedCv34n0wlc&e=
  Hadia Elminiawi - ALAC: (13:06) may i receive a call +201003300867 please
  Holly Raiche: (13:06) Very quiet floor
  Hadia Elminiawi - ALAC: (13:06) I keep losing the connection
  Andrea Glandon: (13:06) Thank you, Hadia.  We are calling now.
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (13:07) sorry to hear that, @Hadia
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (13:07) yes we can hear you
  Holly Raiche: (13:07) Still quite on the floor...
  Evin Erdogdu: (13:07) EPDP draft was submitted 09 December: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/x/-3keBg
  Marita Moll: (13:07) Sorry to be late, backed up calls today
  Andrea Glandon: (13:08) Hadia, please wait for the operator to call you.  That is the best audio :)
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (13:08) oooops
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (13:08) that was a bit fast
  Hadia Elminiawi - ALAC: (13:08) can you hear me
  Andrea Glandon: (13:08) Hadia, please wait for the operator to call you.  Do not use your AC mic
  Glenn McKnight: (13:08) What a pain
  Glenn McKnight: (13:09) Doesn't  she hear
  Glenn McKnight: (13:09) My ears are bleeding
  Leon Sanchez: (13:09) This is just not workable
  Glenn McKnight: (13:10) echo , echo echo
  A-Eduardo Diaz: (13:10) No goood. I can not follow her.
  A-Eduardo Diaz: (13:10) Now is to low
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (13:10) now on phone
  Jonathan Zuck: (13:10) are there slides?
  Glenn McKnight: (13:10) i thinnk so
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (13:11) muffled
  Alan Greenberg: (13:11) People can read the document. We should highlight what has happened recently with the EPDP and use the Wiki for comments.
  Holly Raiche: (13:11) For all next meetings, could  we dial out to Hadia 5 minutes in advance and test the line to make sure we can all hear here well
  A-Eduardo Diaz: (13:11) Already lost in the limbo...
  Alfredo Calderon: (13:12) Please excuse me. I will hear the recording.
  Nadira AL-Araj: (13:12) I'm not hearing well 
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (13:12) the line is not clear
  Jonathan Zuck: (13:12) this i why we need bullets
  Marita Moll: (13:12) Sorry, Hadia is coming through -- but not clearly
  Alan Greenberg: (13:12) I am having a very hard time understanding Hadia.
  Christopher Wilkinson: (13:13) not comprehensible.
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (13:13) we all are and it appears she does not hear us when speaking
  A-Eduardo Diaz: (13:13) @Alan: imagine myself
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (13:13) a half duplex line
  Maureen Hilyard: (13:13) Im hearing her clearly than earlier.
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (13:13) (for people who remember this)
  Holly Raiche: (13:13) I'm with Jonathan on this - bullets would really help as well as a clear line
  Alan Greenberg: (13:13) @Olivier - yup!
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (13:14) the line is improving
  Nadira AL-Araj: (13:14) It is pitty, to Hadia's effort
  Maureen Hilyard: (13:14) Much better now
  A-Eduardo Diaz: (13:15) Better but I lost the flow.
  Nadira AL-Araj: (13:15) Yes, Now it is better, but need to catchup
  Maureen Hilyard: (13:15) Huh.. my phone connection has dropped!
  Andrea Glandon: (13:16) I have contacted the op, Maureen
  Marita Moll: (13:16) Too fast, not clear, not getting much out of it
  A-Eduardo Diaz: (13:17) It seems to me that whe is not hearing what you are saying
  Maureen Hilyard: (13:17) Back again..
  Alan Greenberg: (13:17) @Olivier, half duplex and LONG turn-around.
  Christopher Wilkinson: (13:17) I considere that this is between ICANN.org and the EU DP commissioners. I don't see what EPDP has to add.
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (13:17) I have the vision of two tins connected by a piece of string
  Holly Raiche: (13:18) @OCL - that would be an improvement.
  Alan Greenberg: (13:18) I will have to leave shortly.
  A-Eduardo Diaz: (13:18) I starting to think that this a waste of time. I can not follow her. Her line is to mutted
  Maureen Hilyard: (13:18) A short written statement might help..
  Holly Raiche: (13:19) @ ALan - could you at least pu in the chat a couple of dot points on the form - I agree I am not happy with it
  A-Eduardo Diaz: (13:19) So sorry for that. She has put a lot of effort on this.
  Glenn McKnight: (13:19) More reason to have  captionong
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (13:19) assuming the captioner can also hear
  Alan Greenberg: (13:19) Captioning only works if the captioner can understand.
  Glenn McKnight: (13:19) Recently the Readout from Ottawa was Livestreamed with Captioning 
  Evin Erdogdu: (13:20) EPDP ALAC statement workspace: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/x/-3keBg
  Hadia Elminiawi - ALAC: (13:21) I did not put any comments because I would rather agree with alan and post a single view
  Holly Raiche: (13:21) Thanks Alan - will have another look and add more
  Jonathan Zuck: (13:22) yes friday
  Marita Moll: (13:23) Could you explain again what the red lettering means
  Hadia Elminiawi - ALAC: (13:23) with regard to Holly's comment - local laws are respected according to the contarcts there is no issue in this regard 
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (13:24) @Hadia I think most of us assume if after working together now on this for so intensive a time where you do ever disagree we will hear about that ;-)
  Holly Raiche: (13:24) Thanks Alan - and I will respon to that point - because, in my view, a minimum of information should be there.  There are P/P services for those who are concerned about Public Information being public
  Hadia Elminiawi - ALAC: (13:24) by contracts I mean the agreements
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (13:25) The RED  is what is being responded to the PC  By the ALAC  i.e. 'proposed text'
  Hadia Elminiawi - ALAC: (13:26) yes the red is our comments
  Holly Raiche: (13:27) I won't take up time, but I recognise it is immpossible to accommodate all privacy legislation - so what Alan prposed I"m happy with
  Hadia Elminiawi - ALAC: (13:27) raise hand
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (13:27) Will give you the floor Hadia
  Holly Raiche: (13:30) @ Tihani - the reason for the focus on the EPDP is that, at this stage, it is perhaps the most stringent privacy legislation and therefore, compliance with it will mean largely compliance with most privacy legislation
  Jonathan Zuck: (13:30) but they may be required to do so by law
  Jonathan Zuck: (13:30) there's no global law
  Holly Raiche: (13:31) @ Jonathan - there continues to be a provision in the RAA that accomodates compliance with local laws - which is what Alan is proposing to say (and I suppport)
  Jonathan Zuck: (13:32) agree @Holly. There miht be implications for letting contracting parties do one thing all over the world. 
  Nadira AL-Araj: (13:32) Horray... 
  Holly Raiche: (13:32) @ Jonathan - agreed
  Jonathan Zuck: (13:33) there's data collection and retention legislation making its way around DC that is, in some places, the opposite of GDPR
  John Laprise (ALAC): (13:33) agreed alan
  Hadia Elminiawi - ALAC: (13:34) It is impossible to handle all local laws
  Holly Raiche: (13:34) @ Jonathan - I"m sorry to hear that.  I thought the US was starting to worry about privacy!
  Hadia Elminiawi - ALAC: (13:34) we just need to focus on what we are doing and get it done
  Jonathan Zuck: (13:35) it's not that binary holly everyone has a different way to handle the concerns they see
  Alan Greenberg: (13:35) Contracted parties want to treat Legal Persons as Natural Persons and want to treat all registrants as subject to GDPR. That maps to a virtual blackout of all public WHOIS.
  Holly Raiche: (13:35) Agree with Hadia - the focus of THIS WG is the GDRP - with good reason for doing so.
  Alan Greenberg: (13:35) Us ignoring things in the past is bad, but it is history.
  Holly Raiche: (13:36) @ Alan - saady, so true
  Alan Greenberg: (13:37) I am quite fed up with hearing that we COULd have addressed this earlier. It is not clear that without sanctions, we would have actually done that, but regardless, it is history and we cannot change that.
  Christopher Wilkinson: (13:41) @Alan - But ALAC DID react to the Waiver policy, saying that we favourecd global best practice. Correct?
  Jonathan Zuck: (13:41) i agree. just trying to figure out what's best to advocate now
  Alan Greenberg: (13:43) I think what we should advocate for is what is best now for end users and that is provide all tools available to cybersecuruty people.
  Jonathan Zuck: (13:44) and we NEED a powerpoint next week
  Alan Greenberg: (13:44) GDPR only applied to EU companies/processing, and people resident in the EU served by EU companies and by other conmpanies explicitly targetting them.
  Holly Raiche: (13:45) Has anyone thought about the fact that Google will harvest all of the information gained by everyone providing information
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (13:47) @Holly --- exactly.
  Christopher Wilkinson: (13:47) Seen this Form for the first time a few minutes ago. Will abstain today until taken this seriously on board.
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (13:47) exactly Alan...That is a key driver
  Hadia Elminiawi - ALAC: (13:47) I agree with you alan that we should continue to advocate for what is best for end users but to assure the outcome that we are seeking we need to see how we can resolve the opposition that we are facing and reach a compromise position where we achieve most what we are advocating for
  Marita Moll: (13:47) @Holly -- I find it creepy
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (13:47) easier for the people receiving the comments. Possibly more work for our own staff. 
  Nadira AL-Araj: (13:50) Please, can you give the overview
  Marita Moll: (13:50) Right @ jonathan -- new to me
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (13:50) I am very familiar as well
  Christopher Wilkinson: (13:51) @Holly - WHY do we use Google docs? The secretariat for our work is the ICANN staff.  Not Google.
  Nadira AL-Araj: (13:52) so it is Google Form... 
  Hadia Elminiawi - ALAC: (13:52) Yes Nadira it is google form
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (13:52) Yes it is Nadira
  Nadira AL-Araj: (13:53) Thanks Hadia, Cheryl, I thought another tool
  Yrjö Länsipuro: (13:54) @Holly +1
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (13:54) Agree JZ
  Marita Moll: (13:55) I object to the fact that I can't even read this form without putting in my e-mail address
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (13:56) There was a word version for just reading Marita
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (13:56) INdeed Alan
  Marita Moll: (13:56) Thanks @ Cheryl
  Nadira AL-Araj: (13:57) For public comments, it doesn't allow you to see the other responses 
  Nadira AL-Araj: (13:57) And build on the concept of others
  Holly Raiche: (13:57) It isn't so much about the forms - it is that we need a way to provide comments that give another perspective - and I don't want to be boxed into the views of a topic that others take.  That said, yes, try to respond to the questions asked - from our perspetive
  Christopher Wilkinson: (13:57) But we were never told that the forms go to Google. I always thought thatd they went to the ICANN staff, only.
  Holly Raiche: (13:58) @ Christopher - yes, my other point
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (13:58) @Christopher: Google processes them
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (13:58) and if they do this for free, it is paid for by analytics
  Jonathan Zuck: (13:59) not sure we need privacy in our public comments
  Christopher Wilkinson: (13:59) analytics or Analytics?
  Jonathan Zuck: (13:59) which is basically the circular file!
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (14:00) Yup
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (14:01) But you CAN in GDocs use a non email required set up but then the sender of the form does not get a link to review or edit or copy of lodgment data
  Alan Greenberg: (14:01) I'm off now. Have fun.
  Holly Raiche: (14:01) Bye ALan
  Hadia Elminiawi - ALAC: (14:01) bye alan
  Evin Erdogdu: (14:01) Feel free to email me with any other other questions/feedback you may have on the form.
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (14:02) and for the edge non GDoc access issues outlying means that other ways including the use of other File types for those on request can be made and accomodated for... 
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (14:02) please unsync agenda page
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (14:03) Ohh I have a piece of AOB (brief)
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (14:03) relates to SubPro
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (14:04) We don't usually respond to LGZ PCs
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (14:04) let him do it solo
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (14:04) YUP
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (14:05) But this call can discuss and let him know
  Maureen Hilyard: (14:06) Christopher sounds very muffled
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (14:07) the 2012 AGB will stand unless changed by the PDP
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (14:07) @Jonathan: I agree that the PC on  Maximal Starting Repertoire MSR-4 is  very technical indeed and I also wonder how that affects end users, except I am not an expert in this, so it would be good to hear from Satish & Edmon how this is pertinent
  Maureen Hilyard: (14:07) Must be my end..
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (14:07) Christopher's sound is a little muffled
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (14:08) no it is distorted
  Hadia Elminiawi - ALAC: (14:09) yes marita
  Evin Erdogdu: (14:10) At-Large workspace for Work Track 5 on Geographic Names at the Top Level - Supplemental Initial Report of the New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Policy Development Process: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/x/qXoeBg
  Maureen Hilyard: (14:10) That is a very pertinent request, Marita
  Yrjö Länsipuro: (14:11) I would like to participate in drafting the statement on WT 5
  Hadia Elminiawi - ALAC: (14:11) Thanks Marita 
  Maureen Hilyard: (14:11) You have participated heaps in this WG Yrjo.. 
  Jonathan Zuck: (14:11) ideally we would all be coordinating on the at large view on the issues
  Hadia Elminiawi - ALAC: (14:12) @Olivier exactly
  Marita Moll: (14:12) Thanks Yryo -- happy to have you on board
  Hadia Elminiawi - ALAC: (14:13) if you oppose you should suggest the alternatives
  Yrjö Länsipuro: (14:13) Thanks Marita
  Marita Moll: (14:16) @Cheryl -- I have all the attendance records. You attended 100%
  Jonathan Zuck: (14:16) yay, metrics
  Christopher Wilkinson: (14:17) @Marita I shall send you my current draft
  Marita Moll: (14:17) @cw -- wt5 or auctions. I am doing wt5
  Jonathan Zuck: (14:18) we always end up witeh an a who watches the watchers problem
  Jonathan Zuck: (14:20) which is why we shouldn't be rushing
  Christopher Wilkinson: (14:21) @Cheryl - in that case, the ALAC statement should be MUCH more circumspect.
  Evin Erdogdu: (14:22) Info for Policy Status Report: Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy (IRTP): https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/alacpolicydev/pages/102660547/At-Large+Workspace+Policy+Status+Report+Inter-Registrar+Transfer+Policy+IRTP
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (14:22) There are 'types' of auctions that will meet most needs and minimise risks and concers=ns is what we got as a briefing 
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (14:22) IRTP  IS an End User issue
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (14:23) but only when it goes wrong
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (14:23) yup
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (14:23)  and that is what this is a review of Implementation PC
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (14:24) ICANN running everything IS one of the options
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (14:25) one that is being suggested Seb
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (14:25) only allow ICANN to manage  BUT a Type of not what they did before which still drives UP the price above actual "floor" worth of a name
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (14:26) sorry String
  Holly Raiche: (14:29) @ Jonathan - maybe send us an email on the meeting 0- and save your voice?
  Hadia Elminiawi - ALAC: (14:30) Thanks Jonathan
  Maureen Hilyard: (14:30) Thank you for representing us at this meeting Jonathan
  Jonathan Zuck: (14:32) I was VERY vocal at the Fika. today is no indication!
  Maureen Hilyard: (14:33) Im on to it.. but I thought it was done..
  Holly Raiche: (14:33) Thanks and Good bye
  Hadia Elminiawi - ALAC: (14:33) thank you all bye
  Evin Erdogdu: (14:34) 13:00 UTC is rotation
  Sebastien: (14:34) Rotating
  Hadia Elminiawi - ALAC: (14:34) ok great
  Leon Sanchez: (14:35) Good call
  Leon Sanchez: (14:35) Thanks everyone!
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@CLO3): (14:35) thanks everyone...  bye for now then...
  Hadia Elminiawi - ALAC: (14:35) bye
  Evin Erdogdu: (14:35) Thank you all!
  Avri Doria: (14:35) bye
  Gordon Chillcott: (14:35) Thanks and bye for now.
  Marita Moll: (14:35) bye