AC Chat: 2018-12-05 Consolidated Policy Working Group Call

  Yesim Nazlar: (12/5/2018 15:06) Welcome to the At-Large Consolidated Policy Working Group (CPWG) Call taking place on Wednesday, 05 December 2018 at 13:00 UTC

  Yesim Nazlar: (15:06) Agenda: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/x/kfnvBQ

  Evin Erdogdu: (15:44) Hello all, welcome

  Abdalmonem Galila ( Egypt ): (15:45) Hello Evin

  Evin Erdogdu: (15:50) Hi Abdalmonem!

  Maureen Hilyard: (15:56) Hi everyone - using chat only today

  Evin Erdogdu: (15:56) Hello Maureen, welcome and noted.

  hadia Elminiawi: (15:59) hello all

  Alberto Soto: (16:00) Hello eveyone froBuenos Aires!

  Abdalmonem Galila ( Egypt ): (16:02) Hello Alberto  from Egypt

  Abdalmonem Galila ( Egypt ): (16:02) No problem to wait couple of minutes

  Lilian Ivette De Luque: (16:03) Hello Alberto and Abdalmonem and all

  Abdalmonem Galila ( Egypt ): (16:04) @Lilian my boss, pleased to meet you every webinar

  Alberto Soto: (16:06) Hola Lilian!

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (16:07) Hi all sorry to be late I was in a call with the GAC

  Yesim Nazlar: (16:08) Welcome Cheryl, we've just started

  Abdalmonem Galila ( Egypt ): (16:09) <Comment>I think it is importnat to have an organization field if the domain name owned by an organization only not by user</Comment>

  Abdalmonem Galila ( Egypt ): (16:11) <Comment> May be optional if the domain owned by user </Comment>

  Holly Raiche: (16:11) If it's optional, I agree with Marita - I don't see a problem

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (16:12) Important to show our view though and clearly Back what Alan and Hadia have obviously been saying

  Jonathan Zuck: (16:13) Sounds like a "give an inch take a mile" kind of situation

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (16:15) not a whole lot

  A-Eduardo Diaz: (16:15) But if optional people may or may not put anything there.

  A-Eduardo Diaz: (16:15) So it is a flush

  hadia Elminiawi: (16:16) the EPDB recently released guidelines on the geographical reach of GDPR. See, https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__edpb.europa.eu_our-2Dwork-2Dtools_public-2Dconsultations_2018_guidelines-2D32018-2Dterritorial-2Dscope-2Dgdpr-2Darticle-2D3-5Fen&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=mrDeztziKLa7gZqGADzxcnHA3QXmXYsnChWYBR4NElI&m=-K8EVD3CiKA0lEpzTAs4YRVQjgFX_8NUOT-JDWErNF0&s=ifcCKLgAlE4yzXW4zz5XyyRNnMbUvMnmjJnuj4vG32E&e= and https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__edpb.europa.eu_sites_edpb_files_consultation_edpb-5Fguidelines-5F3-5F2018-5Fterritorial-5Fscope-5Fen.pdf&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=mrDeztziKLa7gZqGADzxcnHA3QXmXYsnChWYBR4NElI&m=-K8EVD3CiKA0lEpzTAs4YRVQjgFX_8NUOT-JDWErNF0&s=emKxO03zbSw8uPZCyFzwfJ-ycDQugnDONMEs0mWdLbE&e= .

  Maureen Hilyard: (16:18) Hadia are these the articles that Alan is referring to?

  hadia Elminiawi: (16:18) yes

  Maureen Hilyard: (16:18) thank you

  Lilian Ivette De Luque: (16:19) thanks Hadia for to share

  hadia Elminiawi: (16:19) you are most welcome

  Jonathan Zuck: (16:20) let's do it!

  Jonathan Zuck: (16:21) I'm a fan of supporting the SSAC

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (16:22) :-) @Marita

  Jonathan Zuck: (16:23) It's not our job to eliminate all liability from the contracted parties

  hadia Elminiawi: (16:23) The guidelines in relation to the geographical reach were released on 16 November 2018 by the EDPB

  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (16:24) I think that a dark whois - ie. with no information whatsoever about the registrant, will definitely not fly with the GAC

  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (16:25) nor any government out there

  Jonathan Zuck: (16:26) agree

  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (16:26) I have concerns that if the EPDP ends up with a completely anonymous whois, ths is going to discredit ICANN altogether, especially in the age of terrorism, hate speech, fake news etc. the current emphasis is aout trust, and anonymous domain names are definitely not trustful

  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (16:26) some people on the EPDP need to live in the real world.

  Abdalmonem Galila ( Egypt ): (16:27) agree with Olivier

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (16:28) and Thanks Alan.Hadia

  hadia Elminiawi: (16:29) @Olivier the registries and registrars now have the opportunity to make policy along with ICANN in relation to the laws and regulations if they fail to do that they need to remember Macron's statement - others will do attempt to take over

  Maureen Hilyard: (16:29) Yes we can hear you Justine

  hadia Elminiawi: (16:29) we hear you well justine

  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (16:32) @Hadia: I do not care if Registries and Registrars end up ebing regulated nationally in each country. What I object to is the discreditation of ICANN. If we do not fight tooth and nail, if we fail, then it's ICANN that will pay the price, because none of us can reasonably stand in front of a government and say that the multistakeholder model works and produces rational results that defend Internet users

  Yesim Nazlar: (16:32) You may find the presentation here: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/x/kfnvBQ

  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (16:32) the irresponsible attitude of the few is pulling everything down

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (16:37) Yes that is an intreging idea  I personally find it apealing though it still means deep pockets helps

  Holly Raiche: (16:38) Agree with CLO - in the end, it is about deep pockets.  However, JZ making some good points.

  Maureen Hilyard: (16:38) I agree Cheryl

  Evin Erdogdu: (16:38) Sure Justine

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (16:38) But I note we had not got to that 'Other types of Actions  yet JZ ;-)

  Holly Raiche: (16:39) I note the point that most are setled by negotiations - which is preferable?

  Jonathan Zuck: (16:39) it's on the slide

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (16:40) but we were only up to 2.1.c.2

  Holly Raiche: (16:40) The issue with random draws is that there can not then be consideration of the merits of applicants

  Jonathan Zuck: (16:43) the vickery auction would only take place AFTER other types of evalutation have failed to address the contention

  Marita Moll: (16:43)  re: vicary -- I do find it intriging as well -- as a last resort -- rather than the regular action route

  Jonathan Zuck: (16:44) it's still a last resort but the numbers are submitted up front and the money goes to ICANN

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (16:44) These are all methods for Last Resort

  Evin Erdogdu: (16:45) Thank you and noted @Justine, we will also have the transcript and recording circulated after the call.

  Jonathan Zuck: (16:47) everything favors money except the specific exceptions we come up with such as CPE, etc.

  Dev Anand Teelucksingh: (16:47) have to leave the call - will review the transcript

  Dev Anand Teelucksingh: (16:47) take care all

  Holly Raiche: (16:47) I thought you were saying auctions as a LAST resort.  Are you asking for other allocation methods BEFORE auctions?

  Yesim Nazlar: (16:47) Thanks for joining Dev

  Jonathan Zuck: (16:48) yup, scary

  Jonathan Zuck: (16:50) we don't want 'em

  Holly Raiche: (16:51) I lilke what Justine has psoposed

  Jonathan Zuck: (16:52) lets get rid of all that

  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (16:52) Private auctions, in my opinion are pure business of speculation.

  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (16:52) They should be disallowed altogether as they are a blatant case of "mae money fast"

  Holly Raiche: (16:53) to clarify - I agree with concerns expressed and we should oppose

  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (16:53) private auctions to not serve ICANN nor end users at all.

  Maureen Hilyard: (16:53) It would be easy to abuse the system in private auctions.

  judith hellerstein: (16:54) I agree with Olivier. we should not support private auctions

  Jonathan Zuck: (16:54) the problem is enforcement. the beauty of the vickery thing is that they never get the chance to do this

  Maureen Hilyard: (16:55) No support for private auctions and buying off other bidders

  Jonathan Zuck: (16:55) exactly

  Jonathan Zuck: (16:56) it's just a practice we don't support

  Jonathan Zuck: (16:56) not abuse

  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (16:57) the "make money fast" culture is exactly what we want to avoid as this does NOT serve end users

  hadia Elminiawi: (16:57) +1 to not supporting private auctions

  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (17:01) @Alan: what benefit to end users is there to applicants working with each other?

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (17:02) indeed JZ

  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (17:02) there are a million ways to get around a hurdle, but a direct path to speculation should be avoided

  hadia Elminiawi: (17:02) I don't see any hands

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (17:02) I see no hand

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (17:03) No it is not Tijani

  judith hellerstein: (17:03) I see no hands either

  hadia Elminiawi: (17:03) @Tijani maybe there is a delay at your end

  Alan Greenberg: (17:04) @Olivier, I think the Internet user benefits from innovative ideas and not prely allowing the richest companies to prevail. Working together has a better "smell" than just auctioning.

  Jonathan Zuck: (17:06) someone need to mute their line

  hadia Elminiawi: (17:06) yes justine but never mind we can hear you well

  Holly Raiche: (17:07) On private resolutions, I am not convinced they are necessarily bad.  How are they detected anyway

  Abdalmonem Galila ( Egypt ): (17:09) <Comment>I agree with the proposed response for Q6</COmment>

  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (17:09) I am hearing Marita very well

  Justine Chew: (17:11) Evin - if you can help identify consensus on any of the positions, that will be helpful, thanks,

  Alan Greenberg: (17:11) @Tijani, we learned in the last round that "communities" may not be universally identifiable.

  Holly Raiche: (17:12) Agree with JZ - if the  applicant has wider community support....

  hadia Elminiawi: (17:13) I see what you mean Jonathan

  Evin Erdogdu: (17:14) @Justine will do

  Jonathan Zuck: (17:16) marita what's your topic?

  Holly Raiche: (17:16) Is that an issue?

  Holly Raiche: (17:17) Agree with suggested response of support

  Maureen Hilyard: (17:18) Agree with the recommended positions

  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (17:20) happy with that - I do not think that this is controversial

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (17:20) Yes a "Reply Period" makes perfect sense

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (17:20)  MUCH  better!!!

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (17:21) Let's power through

  Maureen Hilyard: (17:23) agree

  Jonathan Zuck: (17:23) no objection

  Holly Raiche: (17:25) Agree

  Holly Raiche: (17:27) I hope JZ and/or Justice are also looking at the chat?

  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (17:28) no objection to change request details as given on slide 18

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (17:31) contention not collission

  A-Eduardo Diaz: (17:35) Need to moveon. Thnaks fo rthe information.

  Alfredo Calderon: (17:37) need to leave. thanks for all the insights.

  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (17:38) I agree with JOnathan

  Maureen Hilyard: (17:38) no comment

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (17:38) Phew

  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (17:39) This is great Justine! Thanks for working on this!

  Holly Raiche: (17:39) well done Justine - plenty of work still to do but well presented

  judith hellerstein: (17:39) yes. I also agree

  Marita Moll: (17:39) Justine -- this is amazing work. Thank you

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (17:39) Huge  THANKS  for all your doing in this @Justine!

  Maureen Hilyard: (17:39) Thanks Justine for this excellent work and explanation

  Alberto Soto: (17:39) Thanks Justine

  Maria Korniiets: (17:40) Thank you Justine!

  judith hellerstein: (17:40) yes. thanks Justine for this

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (17:40) She is an excellent communicator as well as a quick study

  Abdalmonem Galila ( Egypt ): (17:40) Thanks Justine

  judith hellerstein: (17:41) yes auction proceeds is closing next week and so please send us your final comments

  Justine Chew: (17:41) Next step for me is to draft properly worded responses based on consensus positions which Evin has (hopefully) captured and if not I will work something out. Will send another message to list asap.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (17:41) I was going to raise the IRTP question  as we SHOULD  comment

  judith hellerstein: (17:41) it closes in dec. 11 and it needs to be approved beforehand

  Evin Erdogdu: (17:41) Policy Status Report: Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy (IRTP): https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/alacpolicydev/pages/102660547/At-Large+Workspace+Policy+Status+Report+Inter-Registrar+Transfer+Policy+IRTP

  Justine Chew: (17:41) Are we calling for penholders?

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (17:42) We should  and perhaps Holly might be well equiped

  Holly Raiche: (17:43) I"ll have a look at the IRTP - I suspect it's about implementaiton since the policies have been discussed a couple of years ago

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (17:43) It is a Policy Status Report  not new POlicy

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (17:43) so not overly complex in nature

  Holly Raiche: (17:43) (and I was part of the IRTP WG)

  Evin Erdogdu: (17:43) Lol

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (17:44) I remember that well Holly this my suggestion ;-)

  Justine Chew: (17:45) @Greg are you looking at the one on new UDRP Service Provider? ;)

  Justine Chew: (17:45) Oops Greg is not on AC :(

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (@clo3): (17:45) Bye for now everyone

  Evin Erdogdu: (17:45) Thank you all!

  Heidi Ullrich: (17:45) Thanks, all.

  Alberto Soto: (17:46) Thanks. bye!!

  Gordon Chillcott: (17:46) Thanks and bye for now.