Zoom chat: 2024-02-14 At-Large Consolidated Policy Working Group (CPWG)

16:39:19 From Yeşim Saglam - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Welcome to At-Large Consolidated Policy WG Call taking place on Wednesday, 14 February 2024 at 14:00 UTC.
16:39:31 From Yeşim Saglam - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Agenda: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/x/FxzxBQ
16:57:03 From hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    Hello all
16:57:36 From Sandra Rodriguez El Salvador to Everyone:
    Hello All
16:57:49 From Claire Craig to Everyone:
    Hello Everyone
16:59:33 From hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    Welcome Olivier
17:00:37 From Sandra Rodriguez El Salvador to Everyone:
    Morning 
    Thanks
17:01:23 From Mouloud Khelif to Everyone:
    Good day everyone, greetings from Paris today
17:01:40 From Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Greetings, All.
17:02:38 From Yeşim Saglam - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Real time transcription (RTT) available at: https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN
17:03:21 From Gopal Tadepalli to Everyone:
    Greetings. - Dr. T V Gopal, Professor, Department of Computer Science and Engineering, College of Engineering, Guindy Campus, Anna University , Chennai, INDIA.
17:03:52 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    Afternoon, evening. morning all.
17:06:44 From Lilian Ivette to Everyone:
    hello everyone
17:07:40 From Chokri Ben Romdhane to Everyone:
    Congrtulations @Steinar Grøtterød (At-Large)
17:12:24 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
    Thanks Yessim
17:13:04 From Yeşim Saglam - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Reacted to "Thanks Yessim" with 
17:14:05 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    not seeing any hands up/questions
17:14:26 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
    NOW I am not drowning in lack of computer access  still setting up so many new log ons
17:20:31 From Steinar Grøtterød (At-Large) to Everyone:
    I don’t understand why we have to give a “hard NO”
17:20:58 From Satish Babu to Everyone:
    +1. If the RVC is to side-step an objection, then the application should not move forward.
17:33:38 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone:
    What would the monitor do?  Who is the enforcer?
17:35:41 From Gopal Tadepalli to Everyone:
    @Sivasubramanian M As you would appreciate, in India, action without ascribing any reason whatsoever can happen at some level of hierarchy in Governance. In such case [not too often], it is a most positive entry for arbitration. Any process for an exception ought to be arbitrarily difficult. - Dr. T V Gopal, Anna University, Chennai, INDIA
17:36:32 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
    so 'either/or' on the monitor  BUT always monitor?
17:36:39 From Satish Babu to Everyone:
    Concerns of bias could be raised if the third-party monitor is identified and paid for by the applicant. An assessment process would be good.
17:36:58 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    A good compromise. It also puts less stress on ICANN Complaince's resources.
17:37:28 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
    Reacted to "A good compromise. I..." with 
17:38:06 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone:
    AFAIC, its the old 'canary in the mine' ploy. The canary can tell when the air is bad.  But without action to improve the air, what you have is a dead canary ..and, dead miners! This is the perfect bureaucratic response btw. Monitoring does not mean enforcement. And without enforcement RVCs would be worth less than a tittle!
17:40:55 From avri doria to Everyone:
    On Preservation should enforceability be reconfirmed?
17:42:00 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone:
    Please add Commitment to Prior Restraint as a bridge too far. The RVC would have some operational or financial value. I cannot see any self-respecting business signing on to a prior restraint that will limit its response to addressing a business problem.
17:42:01 From Amrita Choudhury to Everyone:
    Reacted to "Concerns of bias cou..." with 
17:42:05 From Amrita Choudhury to Everyone:
    Reacted to "A good compromise. I..." with 
17:42:06 From Amrita Choudhury to Everyone:
    Removed a  reaction from "A good compromise. I..."
17:43:38 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone:
    All great questions Sivas! Clap Clap Clap!
17:45:11 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    +1 Alan
17:45:20 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
    Reacted to "+1 Alan" with 
17:46:08 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone:
    Perfect 'no show' contract!! All the Applicant has to do is set the terms of the contract. ANd get a monitor who will as we say "be willing to take a position where all that is required is not to show".
17:46:51 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone:
    ...everybody end up smelling roses!
17:47:20 From avri doria to Everyone:
    I doubt compliance would approve such a contract.  The reason both sides have to agree it is enforceable.
17:48:31 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone:
    Ok. So who is the enforcer?
17:48:46 From Gopal Tadepalli to Everyone:
    @Sivasubramanian MThe nature of ICANN is very unique in the sense that it has very little power and controls "precious" little. It is all the "stake" within its remit that will be in focus. The best part of all this is 'stake" can aas well be intangible. - Dr. T V Gopal, Anna University, Chennai, INDIA
17:49:55 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
    switching devices brb
17:52:20 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    How "measurable harm" is measured needs to be credible.
17:54:52 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone:
    ...and when you see these "elastic" terms in any contract, credibility comes with the complainant. I know a fella in the Cabinet Office who live for these things. Obliterate margins and anything can  fly. Which means nothing gets through
17:55:24 From Michael Palage to Everyone:
    @Justine - here is the language from the reconsideration request requiring "actual injury" (harm) - https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/reconsideration-22-1-palage-request-summary-dismissal-16may22-en.pdf
18:00:52 From hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    +1 lawyers should have the final word here
18:01:50 From hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    But a change in bylaws could be regarded as ICANN changing its mission and starting to get involved in content
18:02:02 From Michael Palage to Everyone:
    Yes - I am sure ICANN legal was responsible in drafting these multiple choice answers for a reason :-)
18:02:35 From avri doria to Everyone:
    ironclad?  what does that mean?
18:03:41 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    c is the least worst option.
18:03:57 From Alan Greenberg (ALAC) to Everyone:
    @Avri, If we do not have absolute certainty (ie ironclad), the we need a bylaw change.
18:04:16 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone:
    +1 OCL. The safest option is the choice to be advised by Jones Day
18:04:31 From Betty Fausta to Everyone:
    Hi. A link for more info about #ironclad please??
18:04:43 From Satish Babu to Everyone:
    +1 Hadia. Legal opinion is a necessary step, but the community must make the final decision.
18:05:07 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    opening up C means the topic is in the ICANN lawyer hands. Sticking to A or B means we're in the status quo "twilight zone"
18:05:31 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone:
    @Satish Babu in my view it is exactly the opposite that carries!
18:06:00 From Satish Babu to Everyone:
    @Carlton SAMUELS Let's agree to disagree :-)
18:06:46 From Alan Greenberg (ALAC) to Everyone:
    We know that there are those who believe that RVC about content DO violate the current bylaws. There have been sessions at ICANN meetings making that clear.
18:06:55 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    if that bylaw is ambiguous it needs to be clarified.
18:08:06 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    Alan is last in the queue please because we are out of time
18:09:28 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
    +++1 for a bylaw expansion
18:09:48 From Gopal Tadepalli to Everyone:
    IMHO, the usage of the word "Content" @ ICANN may not be like the Government flagging "objectionable content" and the like. It may be more on the lines of Content Delivery Networks that permit sharing of an IP Address across devices [like in the anycast protocol]. - Dr. T V Gopal, Anna University, Chennai, INDIA
18:10:56 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
    Apologies for going over time, but the RVC consultation needed to be completed. So, thank you all for your input. And to Olivier, Hadia and staff for not cutting me off.
18:12:22 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MGuaWiZCiMHvseOjfH2BxYUolX_x912k4iHj5Yx_srY/edit?pli=1
18:12:48 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    The "content" issue is a can of worms for ICANN and it has the capability to get everything completely bogged down in arguments. It has also the capability to cross over in the DNS Abuse issues.
18:13:45 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
    Sorry couldn't find the unmute button
18:14:17 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    Thanks for your excellent presentation of the issues and options, Justine
18:17:13 From hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    But I have another view
18:17:36 From Chokri Ben Romdhane to Everyone:
    Thank you all for the great job
18:17:39 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
    The content issue may NOT turn out to be "a can of worms" and would be good for ICANN to examine, and a solution may be there without complicating the legal liabilities of the Ry/Rrs.
18:18:13 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
    Hadia, thats not going to fly IMO
18:18:35 From Satish Babu to Everyone:
    Can the penholders have a call on this to resolve the issue?
18:19:06 From hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    Its fine
18:22:06 From hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    Reacted to "Hadia, thats not goi..." with 
18:22:23 From hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    Thank you Cheryl
18:22:50 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
    Replying to "Its fine"
    
    Hadia, I would suggest that you look at the text in the googledoc to see if you agree with that. It has less emphasis on the contradiction, and just speaks to the consequences. I'm happy to take out the 2nd paragraph on visual similarity remark.
18:23:40 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
    There is a String Similarity Review session as well
18:25:59 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
    Replying to "Its fine"
    
    @Satish Babu could you please do the same. Thank you very much.
18:26:22 From Satish Babu to Everyone:
    Replying to "Its fine"
    
    Sure.
18:27:52 From Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Prep week begins next week: https://www.icann.org/en/announcements/details/icann79-prep-week-schedule-now-available-05-02-2024-en
18:28:39 From Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    The ICANN79 schedule has been published - https://icann79.sched.com/
18:28:53 From Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    The ALAC questions to the Board have been confirmed.
18:29:24 From Betty Fausta to Everyone:
    Replying to "Its fine" 
18:29:36 From Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Prep calls for the Prep Week Board call and the Board/ALAC session during ICANN79 will be held over the next few days with the shepherds.
18:30:11 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
    @Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond I have noted your request to conclude the RVC responses somehow.
18:31:22 From hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    Thank you Olivier
18:32:11 From hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    Sebastien is on the call
18:33:24 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    We should have real time text though
18:34:39 From avri doria to Everyone:
    Does this one seem very multistakeholder or open?
18:34:41 From Amrita Choudhury to Everyone:
    The EC members have been confirmed in NM+10. Now the sub committees will be formed
18:35:09 From Amrita Choudhury to Everyone:
    Avri it will be open but restricted. We await more information and clarity
18:35:54 From avri doria to Everyone:
    not to mentioned the closed way in which the prep is being done.
18:36:01 From Amrita Choudhury to Everyone:
    Yes :(
18:36:25 From Amrita Choudhury to Everyone:
    In our WG Strategy call on 22nd we expect to get more update
18:36:35 From avri doria to Everyone:
    thanks for continuing the arduous task of tracking it.
18:37:19 From Amrita Choudhury to Everyone:
    Reacted to "thanks for continuin..." with 
18:37:35 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    Thanks and later all.
18:37:37 From Satish Babu to Everyone:
    Thanks and bye!
18:37:39 From hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    Thank you all
18:37:44 From hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    Bye for now
18:37:45 From Shah Rahman to Everyone:
    Thank you all
18:37:47 From Amrita Choudhury to Everyone:
    Thanks and bye everyone
18:38:00 From Setondji Herve Hounzandji to Everyone:
    thanks and bye everyone
18:38:04 From Alberto Soto to Everyone:
    Thanks, bye bye!
18:38:14 From hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    PICs and RVSc very important please provide your comments
18:38:24 From Gopal Tadepalli to Everyone:
    Thank You.
18:38:26 From hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    Bye for today
18:38:33 From hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    Prep week starts 20 feb
18:38:38 From Claire Craig to Everyone:
    Bye everyone
18:38:47 From Harold Arcos to Everyone:
    thanks all bye for now
18:38:55 From Sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
    Thank you