Zoom chat: 2024-04-10 At-Large Consolidated Policy Working Group (CPWG)

00:16:47    Gopal Tadepalli:    Greetings. - Dr. T V Gopal, Professor, Department of Computer Science and Engineering, College of Engineering, Guindy Campus, Anna University , Chennai, INDIA.
00:17:12    Claudia Ruiz - ICANN Org:    https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN
00:19:12    Judith Hellerstein:    Yes this is much better audio
00:25:35    John McCormac - HosterStats.com:    Sounds stupid.
00:26:10    Shah Rahman:    Oh yes that's now clear registrant data
00:26:21    John McCormac - HosterStats.com:    If their domain name was being in the process of being stolen/hijacked then someone needs to know.
00:27:05    John McCormac - HosterStats.com:    +1 A;am
00:27:11    John McCormac - HosterStats.com:    +1 Alan
00:28:08    Sivasubramanian Muthusamy:    Would be useful if the links in the document on screen are posted as clickable in the chat
00:31:04    Alan Greenberg (ALAC):    Exeptions for need are fine, but they must not apply to those without the need.
00:31:25    Andrew Chen - ICANN Org:    Replying to "Would be useful if t..."

Hi Siva. Linked below is the agenda that’s being shared on the screen: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=99689933
00:31:52    John McCormac - HosterStats.com:    Domain theft is not impossible and some of these brand protection registrars are not perfect. Sometimes renewals are missed and domain names drop.  A no-notification option would miss this.
00:31:59    Shah Rahman:    Is that not all register should be follow same policy, why only corporate only
00:35:01    Sivasubramanian Muthusamy:    Thank you
00:39:29    Steinar Grøtterød:    Maybe of interest: https://circleid.com/posts/20240405-meeting-report-icanns-registration-data-request-service-requestor-experiences
00:40:35    Shah Rahman:    Reacted to Maybe of interest: h... with 
00:41:45    Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond:    Reacted to "Maybe of interest: h..." with 
00:43:40    John McCormac - HosterStats.com:    The process sounds like the fruit of a poisoned tree. In that the disclosure is already impossible no matter what reasons the requestor provides.
00:46:06    Laura Margolis:    Reacted to "Maybe of interest: h..." with 
00:47:00    Michael Palage:    @Alan Greenberg (ALAC) sorry for the distraction Alan, but until ICANN legal allows the real problem to be addressed NOTHING will change and the ICANN MSM will continue to wither, and more stakeholders will merely go to governments to solve their problems.
00:49:03    Gopal Tadepalli:    @Steinar Grøtterød Are there any specific terms and conditions mandated by ICANN in "Domain Name Contract" and Domain Name Transfer Agreement ? - Dr. T V Gopal, Anna University, Chennai, INDIA
00:54:10    Steinar Grøtterød:    Replying to "@Steinar Grøtterød A..."

There are several policies and obligations accredited registrars must follow. See https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/registrars/registrars-en.
Not sure the I understand “Domain Name Transfer Agreement”. When a domain name is transferred to a new registrar, the registrant has to agree with the new Registrar T&C
00:56:40    Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC):    Indeed labelling the site should not be a maybe
00:57:57    John McCormac - HosterStats.com:    NIS2 is going to cause a lot of problems for EU registrars and registrants. It is like the EU commission wanted something on the lines of ROID without understanding the complexity of the domain name business or registrant data. This is almost the same as the governments moving to "legislate" on the issue and the gTLD registries, including ICM, will be caught up in the storm.
01:01:21    Gopal Tadepalli:    Replying to "@Steinar Grøtterød A..."

TKS. Typically, "Domain Name Transfer Agreement" includes:  payment terms, warranties and representations, and dispute resolution mechanisms. Invariably, this agreement incudes Parties Involved, Domain Name, Transfer Price, Representations and Warranties, Indemnification and Governing Law. On these does ICANN have any specific terms ? - Dr. T V Gopal, Anna University, Chennai, INDIA
01:04:16    Steinar Grøtterød:    Replying to "@Steinar Grøtterød A..."

Transfer fees are set by the new/gaining Registrar. Most of the rest are to be in the  present Transfer Policy and the updated Transfer Policy
01:05:42    Gopal Tadepalli:    Replying to "@Steinar Grøtterød A..."

Tks
01:07:47    Gopal Tadepalli:    @Sivasubramanian Muthusamy Of late, "Digital Economy" is seldom complete  unless it becomes "Digital Computing and Economy". Talking economy provides a good lingua franca, but should we let the controls navigate to Computing Power Centers? For example: Categories you indicated signal compute. Your thoughts... - Dr. T V Gopal, Anna University, Chennai, INDIA
01:08:12    Cheryl Langdon-Orr:    Yes @Alan Greenberg (ALAC)  that 'slip it in' aspect is a poor precedent and a real risk IMO
01:09:11    Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC):    +1 Cheryl
01:09:23    Cheryl Langdon-Orr:    appreciate that @Michael Palage
01:09:26    Steinar Grøtterød:    Will not a revision of contract with ICANN “trump” a RSEP?
01:10:23    Alan Greenberg (ALAC):    @Steinar, yes, and that is a real problem.
01:10:28    avri doria:    the new contract becomes a new base line.
01:10:32    John McCormac - HosterStats.com:    It is a very different market in 2024 to that of 2004. There might be some business model arguments for a change but the change would have to be public rather than moved in under the radar.
01:10:48    Cheryl Langdon-Orr:    Reacted to "It is a very differe..." with 
01:10:51    Alan Greenberg (ALAC):    @John, Exactly.
01:10:56    Shah Rahman:    Reacted to It is a very differe... with 
01:11:06    Laura Margolis:    Reacted to "It is a very differe..." with 
01:11:38    Cheryl Langdon-Orr:    SPec 12 for almost all the others as noted
01:12:34    John McCormac - HosterStats.com:    @Michael Palage I agree on .XXX as it is an edge case.
01:12:48    Lyndell St. Ville:    Reacted to "It is a very differe..." with 
01:16:32    Gopal Tadepalli:    @Steinar Grøtterød How does one ascertain the rights to transfer a domain by a given Registrar [if any]? - Dr. T V Gopal, Anna University, Chennai, INDIA
01:16:37    Lyndell St. Ville:    Agreed
01:19:08    Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC):    And URS as well
01:19:41    John McCormac - HosterStats.com:    ICANN would need the spidering capability of Google and a lot of AI resources to check the content of websites. Even though the usage for some gTLDs maxes out around 40%, that's a serious amount of data for ICANN to deal with as "content police".
01:20:02    Laura Margolis:    I agree is very difficult. Unless there is something already in the name itself
01:20:20    Gopal Tadepalli:    @Michael Palage TKS. Content Management Systems [CMS] and Content Delivery Systems [CDS] are different. ICANN may be into the loop for CDS? You are the best judge on this possibility. - Dr. T V Gopal, Anna University, Chennai, INDIA
01:20:23    John McCormac - HosterStats.com:    There's also the compromised website issue.
01:20:34    Sivasubramanian Muthusamy:    Yes @Michael Palage It is necessary to look at the content, why are we shy?
01:20:45    Steinar Grøtterød:    Replying to "@Steinar Grøtterød H..."

It is the Registrant that initiate a transfer and should be able to do so when wanted as long as the domain name is eligible for transfer (note the post-registration/post transfer lock + some other conditions making the loosing registrar enable to stop the transfer)
01:21:15    Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC):    Also in case of Uniform Rapid Suspension (URS) you will need to look at the content
01:21:55    Gopal Tadepalli:    Replying to "@Steinar Grøtterød H..."

I understand.
01:23:39    Sivasubramanian Muthusamy:    How do you talk about Expected Standards of Behaviour if you refuse to look at even the clothes that the participants wear?
01:24:35    John McCormac - HosterStats.com:    UDRP is almost a completely manual process and subjective. A "content police" approach would not be scalable in that it would have have to be heavily automated and would be ultimately futile..
01:25:02    avri doria:    basically when ICANN hires someone to do something for them, ICANN is responsible.
01:26:00    avri doria:    if it is a content related task, then ICANN is accountable for the doing of that task.
01:26:17    Cheryl Langdon-Orr:    Reacted to "basically when ICANN..." with 
01:27:27    Gopal Tadepalli:    Replying to "basically when ICANN..."

This is assuring. It is the Total Cost of Ownership of this much responsibility. Centralization -> Delegation - > Federation -> Multi-Stakeholder does teach copious lessons. - Dr. T V Gopal, Anna University, Chennai, INDIA
01:28:02    avri doria:    I am curious how the review of the UDRP will go in the environment of the current bylaws.
01:28:33    Cheryl Langdon-Orr:    To Be continued... ... ...   Thx @Michael Palage
01:28:36    Michael Palage:    Need to drop - thanks for the lively discussion
01:28:43    John McCormac - HosterStats.com:    The content problem is a very difficult one to solve and some of the efforts at measuring usage (CENTR) were classifying malware feeder sites and adult landers as content rich websites. The content problem has multiple languages and there is no on-size-fits all approach.
01:30:08    Sivasubramanian Muthusamy:    Q:  If ICANN wouldn't look at the content of user's domains spaces, could it look at the reports on "abuse levels" in TLD spaces?  How did ICANN deal with some of those 2012 round delegates TLDs that were a bit loose ?
01:30:34    Cheryl Langdon-Orr:    Justine will also brief us on that April 18th GNSO Council  deliberations
01:31:08    Bill Jouris:    Please keep me informed on that
01:31:10    Cheryl Langdon-Orr:    Makes good sense as a plan if needs be
01:31:21    John McCormac - HosterStats.com:    @Sivasubramanian Muthusamy This depend on reporting rather than detection. Detection would be a content issue and would require active detection and spidering.
01:31:48    Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC):    Thank you all bye
01:31:49    Sivasubramanian Muthusamy:    @John we will argue a little more on this...
01:32:16    Gopal Tadepalli:    Replying to "How do you talk abou..."

Just being Tongue in Cheek: I am attuned to hospital duties from my very young days. My neural networks function differently on the dressing etiquette.
01:32:20    Shah Rahman:    Thank you all and bye
01:32:23    Pari Esfandiari:    Thank you everyone. Bye now.
01:32:26    Claire Craig:    Thanks everyone. Bye
01:32:28    Lavish Mawuena Mensah:    Good night... thanks to all... Goodbye
01:32:34    Waqar Ahmad:    Thanks everyone
01:32:37    Alberto Soto:    Thanks, bye bye!
01:32:45    Claire Craig:    See you all tomorrow on the OFB WG call
01:32:52    Lyndell St. Ville:    Next week’s meeting conflicts with ARIN 53
01:33:12    Gopal Tadepalli:    Replying to "How do you talk abou..."

In any case, we can say ICANN Expected Standard Behavior. There may not be a Gold Standard Behavior at all.
01:33:15    John McCormac - HosterStats.com:    Thanks and later all.
01:33:18    Shah Rahman:    Thank you @Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond
01:33:18    Sivasubramanian Muthusamy:    Thank you. And, festival greetings
01:33:20    Lilian Ivette De Luque:    Bye
01:33:22    Lyndell St. Ville:    Thank you. Goodbye.
01:33:24    Laura Margolis:    byee
01:33:25    Steinar Grøtterød:    Bye!