Zoom chat: 2023-03-29 At-Large Consolidated Policy Working Group (CPWG)
- Michelle DeSmyter
- Aleksey Khapchenko
00:23:28 Herb Waye Ombuds: Greetings everyone.
00:24:10 Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: To follow along with the RTT: https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
00:24:17 Jonathan Zuck: Welcome back everyone!
00:24:33 Gopal Tadepalli: Greetings. - Dr. T V Gopal, Professor, Department of Computer Science and Engineering, College of Engineering, Guindy Campus, Anna University , Chennai, INDIA.
00:25:06 Chantelle Doerksen - ICANN Org: Hello all!
00:27:06 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: Sorry for being late. Was just finishing the gTLD Registrars and Resellers report.
00:27:28 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: Reacted to "Sorry for being late..." with
00:27:36 Greg Shatan: Sorry for being late as well.
00:28:15 Alberto Soto: Sorry, I’m late too.
00:29:33 sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Why can't the Registrant initiate a dispute?
00:31:05 sivasubramanian Muthusamy: i.e. What is the rationale given by those who propose this limitation, for this restriction?
00:33:37 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: Doing nothing is not a good option. It needs either a formal or informal input that the process should be registrant focused as it is their domain names,
00:35:10 Chantelle Doerksen - ICANN Org: @Siva, I have my hand raised in the queue to flag your question, however, please feel free to raise your hand to ask as well
00:36:12 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: There is also a possible scenario where a rogue registrar starts fraudulently converting registrant domain names and transferring them to other registrars with the registrant only finding out later.
00:36:13 sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Thank you Chanetelle
00:36:33 sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Chantelle
00:36:34 Naveed: I wonder if Registrar or Resellers would open up sharing the Data to the Registrant. I guess a process could be made for the Registrant to initiate a Dispute Resolution to its Registrar and it can initiate it on the Registrant behalf
00:36:34 Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: To follow along with the RTT: https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
00:38:01 Judith Hellerstein: This all assumes that the registrant is aware that their domain was given to another registrar
00:39:04 Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: A kind reminder to please say your name before speaking for the transcription - thank you so much.
00:40:39 Chantelle Doerksen - ICANN Org: @Siva and @Steinar, we can also bring that question regarding Registrant disputes back to the GNSO Support staff as well
00:41:13 Naveed: Exactly @Alan. We can have a separate process between a Registrant and Registrar
00:41:32 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Judith In this scenario, the registrant only finds out after the domain name has been transferred. With a registrant with a large number of domain names, many of them may be parked on PPC or on sales sites and they may not notice until it was too late.
00:45:03 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Steinar Perhaps most registrants are not aware of their rights because registrations have become commoditized and may end user registrants do not know how to proceed.
00:45:26 Judith Hellerstein: @john. Exactly and that is what happened to a colleague whose domain was transferred without her knowledge and then sold off and she could not get it back even though it was her first and last name
00:46:14 Judith Hellerstein: @steiner, exactly
00:47:37 Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: To follow along with the RTT: https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
00:47:38 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: <comment>Formally or informally emphasise the rights of the registrant.</comment>
00:47:53 Hadia Elminiawi: What are the advantages of having an informal position?
00:48:02 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: Reacted to "<comment>Formally or..." with
00:48:05 Jonathan Zuck: Exactly right
00:48:14 Hadia Elminiawi: +1 Alan
00:48:30 Naveed: Right @Alan
00:48:33 Jonathan Zuck: And THIS is the feedback look the ALAC wants to see operational
00:48:40 Jonathan Zuck: loop
00:48:56 Dave Kissoondoyal - ICANN ALAC: +1 Alan
00:48:56 Bill Jouris: +1
00:49:26 Vanda Scartezini - Brazil: + 1 sure.
00:50:38 Claudia Ruiz - ICANN Org: We can use check mark for yes and X is against
00:51:13 Claudia Ruiz - ICANN Org: We can use green check mark for yes and X if against
00:51:23 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Support
00:51:31 Naveed: Are we request a deliberation on including RNH part of the TDRP or we want that RNH should be included in Dispute Resolution?
00:51:39 Claudia Ruiz - ICANN Org: 17 green checks so gar
00:51:43 Claudia Ruiz - ICANN Org: *far
00:51:47 Claudia Ruiz - ICANN Org: No X
00:52:02 Eduardo Díaz - NARALO: agree
00:56:15 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: It (registrant right to initiate)should be added as a formal input.
00:56:31 Chantelle Doerksen - ICANN Org: @Steinar, we’ll note this as an AI for staff
01:05:07 Steinar Grøtterød: Replying to "@Steinar, we’ll note..."
Thanks.
01:05:10 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: Seems that the RDA scoping team has been a vicntim of GDPR. :)
01:05:25 Michael Palage: I do have something to say on Accuracy
01:05:49 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: ok Michael --- you'll speak after Alan's finished with SSAD ODA
01:06:01 Michael Palage: 1) Staff completed a survey in connection with the Accuracy Scoping Team Work
01:06:30 Michael Palage: 2) I agree with Alan. No substantive work has taken place
01:06:35 Chantelle Doerksen - ICANN Org: For Accuracy, to support Alan and Michael’s updates, on 14 March there was a response from ICANN Org (Brian Gutterman) to Sebastien Ducos on a request
01:06:58 Chantelle Doerksen - ICANN Org: https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/gutterman-to-ducos-14mar23-en.pdf
01:08:08 Chantelle Doerksen - ICANN Org: (Four scenarios and some related DPIAs)
01:08:20 Michael Palage: 3) The Commission is under taking a tender which appears on its face that will tackle much of the work that Accuracy Scoping never got around. This tender is intended to help inform member states as they implement NIS 2..0 Article 28
01:08:32 Jonathan Zuck: It IS a little ridiculous
01:08:54 Steinar Grøtterød: Replying to "@Steinar Perhaps mos..."
I agree. Adding an option for the RNH to initiate a transfer dispute will - in my view, make it more “public” also for the registrants.
01:09:17 Hadia Elminiawi: @Chantelle thanks
01:09:23 Hadia Elminiawi: Thank you Alan
01:10:14 Chantelle Doerksen - ICANN Org: Reacted to "@Chantelle thanks" with
01:12:17 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: Does it apply to ccTLD and gTLD data?
01:14:50 Steinar Grøtterød: Replying to "Does it apply to ccT..."
Some discussions indicate that the result is already given: the European cctLDs are in “good” shape (regarding aet. 28). Not sure that the tender specific address also the gTLDs
01:15:07 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Michael The EU commission seems to want a lot of information that either isn't available or isn't accessible beyond the local ccTLDs and registrars.
01:15:59 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Steinar Thanks. The EC comments on DNS when NIS2 was being formulated was worrying to say the least. (They never bothered to quantify the number of DNSes or DNS operators affected.)
01:16:10 Jonathan Zuck: right. schedule is not the same as draft
01:16:24 Michael Palage: @John they want a lot on a very tight budget.
01:16:52 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Michael I admire their optimism. :)
01:17:56 Michael Palage: @John - "at least 35 European ccTLDs, including all EU ccTLDs, as well as the top 20 most used gTLDs worldwide"
01:18:16 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: Board Resolutions: https://www.icann.org/en/board-activities-and-meetings/materials/approved-resolutions-regular-meeting-of-the-icann-board-16-03-2023-en#section2.a
01:19:04 Hadia Elminiawi: A GNSO Council project plan and timeline for policy work, or an alternate path, on how to handle closed generics for the next round of new gTLDs;
01:19:13 Michael Palage: Need to drop. Will listen to the recording later
01:19:18 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Michael sounds like CENTR is talking to them. It has the capability to go wrong very quickly. It also ignores geo gTLDs which are not heavily used but exist in the EU.
01:19:57 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: The Board resolution is significant.
01:20:32 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: it's one of these huge chunks asked from the GNSO.
01:21:27 Hadia Elminiawi: The board resolution says: Whereas, the Board understands that the delivery of the Implementation Plan no later than 1 August 2023 requires the satisfactory completion of the following four deliverables (the Deliverables) by the last day of the ICANN77 Public Meeting (15 June 2023): 3. A GNSO Council project plan and timeline for policy work, or an alternate path, on how to handle closed generics for the next round of new gTLDs
01:24:49 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: "requires the satisfactory completion of the following four deliverables (the Deliverables) by the last day of the ICANN77 Public Meeting (15 June 2023)" and that is the challenge.
01:25:44 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: we need to get our ducks in order if there's supposed to be deliverables in such a short time
01:31:00 Gopal Tadepalli: @Alan Greenberg & @ Greg Shatan: Moving to process in Closed Generics is good for progressing to programming and systems. However, how is the process specified ;other than specific cases ? Any number of cases is seldom conclusive. One can see 1000 cats with four legs. That is no guarantee that 1001 cat also has four legs. The "Process" needs specification that is generic enough. - Dr. T V Gopal, Anna University, Chennai, INDIA
01:31:42 Jonathan Zuck: Agree, Cheryl. I guess my concern stems from now having really discussed this sufficiently beforehand and worry about using CPWG time to discuss process, something about which the participants can do nothing. That's all.
01:31:58 Jonathan Zuck: I have nothing against the experimental process itself.
01:32:08 Eduardo Díaz - NARALO: Perhaps the outcome of this timeline challenge suggests that all closed generics will be excluded from availability in the subsequent round!
01:32:54 Jonathan Zuck: VERY legit concern. Happy to help take that up with ORG
01:34:33 Alberto Soto: Sorry, I have another meeting. Bye!!
01:38:09 Eduardo Díaz - NARALO: Could explore incorporating the actual number of applicants as an additional performance indicator?
01:38:28 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: Would it also be a good idea to reach out to potential resellers (who may already be ccTLD registrars) as well as applicants for the gTLDs? That way some proxy market research could be done to see how well supported a new gTLD could be in those markets.
01:39:55 sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Organizing the portal for access, not only for the next round, but for the current round !
01:40:06 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: The gTLD/ccTLD politics would need to be handled carefully though.
01:43:39 Jonathan Zuck: It DOES look like a lot of work with some solid metrics! This is something we could potentially partner with the GAC on
01:44:10 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: Reacted to "It DOES look like a ..." with
01:46:01 Jonathan Zuck: there's going to be a fight about budget, I suspect. that's where we'll need allies
01:46:36 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Very Likely @JZ
01:47:04 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: The hardest part of this will be quantifying the markets for these new gTLDs and that's where a lot of support will be needed.
01:47:47 Maureen Hilyard (Cook Is): Thank you for these suggestions.
01:47:50 Sarah Kiden: We shall take note of the comments after the call
01:48:06 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Thank you both
01:48:11 Chantelle Doerksen - ICANN Org: Thank you. Staff will take it as an AI of a possible joint activity with the GAC
01:48:11 Hadia Elminiawi: Thank you Maureen and Sarah
01:48:18 Naveed: Thanks
01:48:28 Maureen Hilyard (Cook Is): thanks everyone for your support
01:49:26 Vanda Scartezini - Brazil: thanks Chantelle
01:50:02 Chantelle Doerksen - ICANN Org: Current open Public Comments: https://www.icann.org/en/public-comment
01:50:21 Chantelle Doerksen - ICANN Org: https://www.icann.org/en/public-comment/proceeding/initial-report-on-the-rzerc-charter-review-27-03-2023 (closing on 8 May)
01:50:56 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Just a tad of background @AG :-)
01:51:03 Roberto Gaetano: How many hands does Aland have? :-)
01:51:30 Jonathan Zuck: Yay!
01:51:34 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: decide NOW
01:52:39 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: remem erring not all of us here were with the Accountability CCEG
01:52:55 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: CCWG (sorry)
01:52:56 Natalia Filina: Replying to "The hardest part of ..."
yes, the most difficult part - researching. How does ICANN/community usually get such analytics? From registries?
01:53:18 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: Alan - did you decide on the acronym RZERC? That has to be the ugliest acronym in ICANN. ICANN sounds positive as an acronym. RZERC sounds like & looks like B'ZERK. :-)
01:53:30 Sarah Kiden: Reacted to "Alan - did you decid..." with
01:53:32 Natalia Filina: Reacted to "Alan - did you decid..." with
01:54:18 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Thx @AG :-)
01:54:48 Eduardo Díaz - NARALO: @Olivier: just like the SSAD. Sounds like: Sooooo Sad
01:54:52 Hadia Elminiawi: Root Zone Evolution Review Committee (RZERC)
01:55:05 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: Reacted to "@Olivier: just like ..." with
01:55:16 Alan Greenberg: @Olivier, I actually cannot recall if I invented the acronym or not. I'll check!
01:55:36 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Natalia Unfortunately, some of the data ICANN ORG has is faulty. There is no error checking on the registrar reports submitted to ICANN. Other than that, it is more complex because there are so many sources and the data is a bit overwhelming.
01:56:44 Roberto Gaetano: the big advantage of the RZERC acronym is that if you type it in Google the https://www.icann.org/rzerc site is the top of the list of answers
01:57:22 Natalia Filina: Replying to "@Natalia Unfortunate..."
Thanks John. This is the reason why I (maybe mistakenly) dream that we can establish a flow of analytics from the field, from our ALSs. Probably naive, but it's worth finding a way as an alternative
01:58:08 Eduardo Díaz - NARALO: @HAdia: It would be beneficial to conduct a capacity-building session on the ODPs, ensuring that we are all aligned and ready to participate actively in the discussion.
01:59:38 Hadia Elminiawi: @Eduardo, we have a CBWG workshops call this Thursday let’s discuss during the call
02:00:05 Eduardo Díaz - NARALO: @Hadia: add the IRT in the same capacity building suggestion
02:00:39 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Natalia It is possible to build a snapshot of the market but GDPR has made it a lot more difficult at domain name level. There was a question asked at the last ICANN meeting about ICANN tracking the level of resellers in the gTLDs (It is approximately 25% of the market). Unfortunately, ICANN may not know the right questions to ask when estimating the market because it is locked into the registry/registrar model while the market is far more complex and has different businesses in addition to the registrars and resellers.
02:00:45 Eduardo Díaz - NARALO: @HAdia: I will try to be there.
02:02:06 Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org: @Dave, staff do not currently have a CBWG call scheduled for tomorrow.
02:04:14 Maureen Hilyard (Cook Is): Have to leave for another meeting.. Have a great day :)
02:04:24 Natalia Filina: Reacted to "Have to leave for an..." with
02:05:04 Dave Kissoondoyal - ICANN ALAC: Bye Maureen
02:05:27 Chantelle Doerksen - ICANN Org: Session reports from ICANN76: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/atlarge/pages/99672667/At-Large+Session+Reports+from+ICANN76.
Please consider if you’d like to volunteer for a session during ICANN77 (you can participate remotely for this as well)
02:05:52 Hadia Elminiawi: Thanks Chantelle
02:06:00 Sarah Kiden: Replying to "Session reports from..."
This says that the link does not exist. Kindly check
02:06:19 Chantelle Doerksen - ICANN Org: Replying to "Session reports from..."
Oops, try this one
02:06:20 Eduardo Díaz - NARALO: @Chantelle: the link does not work at least for me
02:06:20 Chantelle Doerksen - ICANN Org: Replying to "Session reports from..."
https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/atlarge/pages/99672667/At-Large+Session+Reports+from+ICANN76
02:06:29 Chantelle Doerksen - ICANN Org: Replying to "Session reports from..."
(Might have been the period, apologies)
02:06:40 Chantelle Doerksen - ICANN Org: Updated link to session reports: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/atlarge/pages/99672667/At-Large+Session+Reports+from+ICANN76
02:06:44 Sarah Kiden: Replying to "Session reports from..."
This one works. Thank you!
02:06:51 Natalia Filina: Replying to "@Natalia It is possi..."
Thanks for explanation. Interesting. Yes, I see. We are a little behind the realities. We need to change the interaction at different levels and direction of processes and look at new (other) players. Lack of analytics is a bad ally in any decisions
02:07:12 Hadia Elminiawi: Thanks you Jonathan
02:07:16 Chantelle Doerksen - ICANN Org: To build on Jonathan’s report, Hadia will be taking a lead role on the talking points for ICANN77
02:07:29 Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org: Thanks, Chantelle.
02:07:37 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Noted...
02:07:48 Hadia Elminiawi: @Chantelle noted
02:10:53 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Thanks everyone... Bye for now then...
02:10:59 Dave Kissoondoyal - ICANN ALAC: Thanks and bye to all
02:11:01 Herb Waye Ombuds: Thanks you all, stay safe and be kind.
02:11:07 Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org: @Hadia, staff do not have a CBWG meeting planned for tomorrow. Happy to set up a call next week.
02:11:18 Chantelle Doerksen - ICANN Org: Thank you Olivier, Hadia, all. Thank you to Claudia/Michelle and the interpreters as well for call management
02:11:21 Hadia Elminiawi: Thank you all
02:11:21 Naveed: Thanks all
02:11:22 Natalia Filina: thank you for this meeting
02:11:27 Hadia Elminiawi: @Heidi noted
02:11:31 Dave Kissoondoyal - ICANN ALAC: Noted Heidi. Thanks
02:11:34 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: Thanks and later all.
02:11:39 Sarah Kiden: Thank you everyone!
02:11:43 Alfredo Calderon: Have a great day, afternoon, evening.
02:11:48 Mouloud Khelif: Thanks everyone
02:11:51 Hadia Elminiawi: bye
02:11:56 Roberto Gaetano: bye all