AC Chat: 2018-01-08 NARALO Teleconference
- Yesim Saglam
- Aleksey Khapchenko
- Claudia Ruiz
Claudia Ruiz:Welcome to the NARALO Teleconference Call on Monday, 08 January 2018 at 20:00 UTC
Mario Aleman:Draft agenda: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/x/qjWSBg=
Glenn McKnight:Hi
Mario Aleman:Hello Glenn
Glenn McKnight:Mario we need to find out how many people have used the French channel. Judith has said no one is using it
Glenn McKnight:calling if on adigo to have a clear line
Mario Aleman:Sure, we can do that
Claudia Ruiz:Hello Gordon Chillcott, Welcome
Claudia Ruiz:Hello Susannah Gray, Welcome
Susannah Gray (SF-Bay ISOC Chapter):Hi Claudio, thnaks
Gordon Chillcott - Greater Toronto Area Linux User Group:Hello, Claudia. Thank you.
Glenn McKnight:Glenn , rep for Foundation for Building Sustainable Communities
Silvia Vivanco:Hello all
Glenn McKnight:ALan G and Greg Shatan will not be attending
Glenn McKnight:Hi Silvia
Claudia Ruiz:Hello Ron da Silva
Ron da Silva:hello all
Glenn McKnight:Greetings Ron, Gordon and Susannah, and Matt
Glenn McKnight:Welcome everyone.
Glenn McKnight:Hi Silvia
Glenn McKnight:Please type in your ALS affiliation
Matthew Rantanen - Native Public Media:There is an update to the software, and I had to update reload
Glenn McKnight:thanks all
Glenn McKnight:Hi Leah
Matthew Rantanen - Native Public Media:@eduardo update your ac software
Glenn McKnight:Hi William
Mark Buell:Hi, all.
Glenn McKnight:Hi Mark
William Michael Cunningham:Hello
Mark Buell:Happy new year, Glenn.
Matthew Rantanen - Native Public Media:Hello Mark!
Mark Buell:Hey, Matt.
Jonathan Zuck (Indie):Happy New Year!
Glenn McKnight:You too, you are in the agenda
Glenn McKnight:Hi Jon
Glenn McKnight:Remember to add your affilation for Mario's records
Javier rua Jovet (ALAC):Hi y'all
Silvia Vivanco:Happy New Year all!
Glenn McKnight:Hi Javier
Glenn McKnight:Javier i added you on the FBSC Draft in Google doc
Matthew Rantanen - Native Public Media:@glenn @mario ALS affiliation is attached to my name in the list
Javier rua Jovet (ALAC):I was gladly "voluntold" by Glenn
Glenn McKnight:It was a good snow storm here in Southern Ontario today. At least its not so cold
Glenn McKnight:Wlecome Tom
Glenn McKnight:You are funny Javier
Tom Lowenhaupt:speaking?
Yubelkys Montalvo:happy new year to all
Glenn McKnight:Mario is speaking
Glenn McKnight:Note Greg Shatan sent his regrets too. ISOC NY
Glenn McKnight:Note Alfredo Calderon regrets
Glenn McKnight:Please add your name of organization or unaffilated status if you forgot
Jonathan Zuck (Indie):my organization is the Innovators Network Foundation
Glenn McKnight:Note the new Outreach and Engagement Wiki page is created
Glenn McKnight:https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/NARALO/pages/110245382/NARALO+Outreach+and+Engagement+2018+workspace
Heidi Ullrich:Happy 2018, All!
Susannah Gray (SF-Bay ISOC Chapter):agenda not scrolling on my end
Heidi Ullrich:Sixty days to ICANN 61 in PR!
Glenn McKnight:@Heidi the O and E page above has the signup page for the NARALO booth
Heidi Ullrich:Thanks, Glenn.
Glenn McKnight:Item 004 SOI reminders to everyone to update
Glenn McKnight:i think most people have done theirs
Glenn McKnight:New SOI can be posted here
Glenn McKnight:This is the FBSC submissions
Glenn McKnight:Judith is submitting one, The Indigenous Fellowship is now the GLOBAL
Glenn McKnight:Folks if you recall the Network Neutrality was a issue brought up by the community
Glenn McKnight:It's not a ICANN issue but our community issue, especially the US citizens
Glenn McKnight:@Heidi is that old hand?
Glenn McKnight:Welcome John, Joe and Yubelkys
Glenn McKnight:Will the slides be available after the call?
Mario Aleman:Sure, we can upload the slides, Glenn
Glenn McKnight:Can everyone hear Mark?
Glenn McKnight:he is low for me but it might be my phone
Mario Aleman:I hear Mark
Bill Jouris:It's not a complex *policy* issue. It's just a complex *political* issue.
Glenn McKnight:Welcome Bill Jouris, Allan Skuce, Dustin and Eve
Jonathan Zuck (Indie):I'm not sure I entirely agree
Eduardo Díaz - ALS:@Jonathan: You do not entirely agree with what?
Jonathan Zuck (Indie):not a complex *policy* issue
William Michael Cunningham:Not sure this is an appropriate forum for this topic. Technically, hard to discuss on this tool. Also, would like more input on how this discussion is set up.
William Michael Cunningham:Don't really agree with much of this discussion, but whatever. I would have invited an FCC Commissioner to discuss.
William Michael Cunningham:This is not the crux of the matter, but whatever.
Eve Edelson (SF bay area chapter):I think net neutrality (if that's what you mean) is entirely appropriate to discuss here, but as you say, not easy to discuss with this tool.
Matthew Rantanen - Native Public Media:+1 @eve
Glenn McKnight:Very interesting session on CBC Spark on the NN issue . I have been posting from a Canadian perspective. Perhaps Mark can you address the impact on Canada of the FCC repeal
Glenn McKnight:thanks
Eve Edelson (SF bay area chapter):Very interested in Canadian (and all) perspective(s)
Javier rua Jovet (ALAC):<Comment> Me must all remeber that "network neutrality" -the idea that network pipes must be agnostic to what data flows throught them - has ALWAYS been an an INTERNET core principle. Obama era NN rules simply made the policy legally binding in the US. The idea is that Internet service should be like phone service: can a phone company make your connection worse if it disapproves who you call? No, of course. And neither should your ISP.
Glenn McKnight:Please mute your line if not speaking
Matthew Rantanen - Native Public Media:+1 Javier, absolutely!
Eve Edelson (SF bay area chapter):+1 @javier
Bill Jouris:+1 Javier
Glenn McKnight:correct
Jonathan Zuck (Indie):Which would be much clearer and more lasting
Matthew Rantanen - Native Public Media:very glad we are not hearing from an FCC commissioner on this topic. Tend to be full of political speak which doesn't ever get down to the core of how it messes with the masses
William Michael Cunningham:So your'e telling me that a technical stsyem designed to block and throttle certain names or numbers will have no impact on the organization charged with names and numbers. That may be the canadian perspective, but it is not realistic.
Glenn McKnight:Good point. Dr. Andrew Clement has done some good work on the DIgital Sovereignty
Glenn McKnight:All Canadian email goes through the US sites and under the NSA rules
Ron da Silva:would love to discuss this topic in better forum..
Bill Jouris:William, perhaps the question is not "will it have an impact" but "is there anything that ICANN can effectively do about it?"
Matthew Rantanen - Native Public Media:Impacts ICANN, but not yet its jurisdiction... Maybe it should be?
William Michael Cunningham:Matthew - wrong. I dont; know if you have ever spoken with one. I appreciate your lack of faith in the policy makers responsible for this
Jonathan Zuck (Indie):No!
Matthew Rantanen - Native Public Media:not a question
Javier rua Jovet (ALAC):I disaggree with William. This is a great forum to discuss and move on. But we better get to ICANN-remit relevance of NN!
Glenn McKnight:Launch of IXmaps Internet Mapping tool enables Canadians to see exactly where their data travels online
William Michael Cunningham:Disagree with this discussion. Not really helpful, but thanks...
Claudia Ruiz:Welcome Judith
Glenn McKnight:also
William Michael Cunningham:Western governance organizations have never kept civil rights promises. Whose land are we on now? Ask the natives....it's not even a question.
Jonathan Zuck (Indie):and not just other countries. the FCC has a LOT of power under Title II that they are simply choosing not to exercise in the near term
Judith hellerstein:was traveling to NYC and my train was delayed
Ron da Silva:@zuck related is also not all operators have same tax or subsidie or right-of-ways or franchise rights/privileges - so title II linkage introduces other inequities
Glenn McKnight:Welcome Judith
Jonathan Zuck (Indie):Yes @Ron. I'm most concerned about censorship at the moment and this absolutist view about traffic prioritization.
Matthew Rantanen - Native Public Media:@William, as a Native, it is still our responsibility to be informed and work on the issues and try to hold the government accountable, not just lay down and let it happen because of the history of the behaviour
Glenn McKnight:Please put your hand up if you have comments or questions
Glenn McKnight:Please identify yourself
William Michael Cunningham:Does anyone have a policy suggestion for ICANN with respect to this issue?
Glenn McKnight:@William who are you addressing the questoin to? Is it to Heidi?
William Michael Cunningham:Glenn - the group.
Eve Edelson (SF bay area chapter):yes
Eve Edelson (SF bay area chapter):I mean yes I can hear him
Javier rua Jovet (ALAC):i will put a cooment in chat soon
Eve Edelson (SF bay area chapter):@zuck has given me more to think about, before I try to comment further
William Michael Cunningham:I have a hard stop in 5 minutes. So, on the most important technical issue to come down the pike in the last 10 years, this group has nothing to say formally.
Eve Edelson (SF bay area chapter):I am involved in other groups that take positions on this, outside of NARALO/ICANN
Matthew Rantanen - Native Public Media:Do you @William? What are your suggestions?
Glenn McKnight:I think most of us are active in Non ICANN groups that are proactive . ie. ISOC etc
Jonathan Zuck (Indie):which is why congress should handle it
William Michael Cunningham:Not really about me making ANOTHER helpful suggestion.
William Michael Cunningham:Yes, but what if you are wrong?
Eve Edelson (SF bay area chapter):And other factors will be involved: like the intervention of the big content companies in the lawsuit, and possibly technical developments - growth in local municipal networks, for one thing.
Javier rua Jovet (ALAC):Comment: Obama-era “Net Neutrality” rules, are the legal obligations that forbid Internet Service Providers (ISPs) from blocking access to your websites of choice and which proscribe the speeding up of web contents and websites through premium, paid prioritization lanes or other means, in detriment of and/or throttling down other content.The Democrat led FCC, under Thomas Wheeler, enacted as regulatory norms these longstanding policies norms after placing the Internet under Title II of the Federal Communications Act, thus reclassifying it a “telecommunications service” subject to administrative oversight.Chairman Pai, is mild mannered and — in my view — a well-intentioned public official, that holds that the cable companies and other ISPs will self-regulate; an ideological belief in the invisible hand of competitive forces guiding markets towards loftier goals than pure profit and progressive consolidation.I think he is mistaken. Although some companies will behave, [cont..]
Matthew Rantanen - Native Public Media:Native Americans are completely opposed to the removal of Netowrk Neutrality safeguards. We are still battling to get access. We'd like access to an unfiltered, unblocked resource... Not just some slice of what some c coroporation sees as the
Matthew Rantanen - Native Public Media:solution
Matthew Rantanen - Native Public Media:+1 Javier
Glenn McKnight:William has his hand up
William Michael Cunningham:Hand up
Javier rua Jovet (ALAC): [….] experience shows that even under the relatively lax rules still in place, some like Comcast, Verizon and others turn out to be recidivist offenders.Voiding Title II Net Neutrality protections will allow money to progressively be the prime determiner of what information reaches you, and a tool for drowning out content of lesser economic means.The issue is important. The Internet is being cornered by large ISPs (so-called “Big Cable”); the startups of yesterday are giant, powerful multinationals today. And the rights of individual users, our ability to assert these rights in appropriate and accessible fora will soon disappear.No doubt that markets and technical innovation must continue to be the main drivers of Internet evolution, deployment and adoption. But no market can be truly free without regulatory boundaries.Examples abound: extreme deregulation prompted savings and loans failures, securities and bond fraud, sub-prime lending abuses, and the distorting effects of unlimited money {cont...}
Yubelkys Montalvo:no
Javier rua Jovet (ALAC):[...]of unlimited money in the electoral process, under guise of First Amendment liberty.Competition is good, it is essential, but no market is perfect. Market distortions require empowered and enlightened consumers, able to assert and enforce their rights.Although I think Net Neutrality ‘repeal and replace’ is a fait accompli by the current FCC, I am certain the debate will not end.It will take a future Democratic administration in the White House and in the FCC to reverse the damage and restore our free and open Internet.
Glenn McKnight:Can we take a poll
Matthew Rantanen - Native Public Media:Yes, let's vote
Glenn McKnight:Mario can you post a poll
Eve Edelson (SF bay area chapter):By when woudd we need to come up with a coherent statement?
Ron da Silva:@Javier - Obama rule prohibited fast lanes even if they don't impact the "regular" best effort traffic lanes, subtle but very important difference
judith hellerstein 2:i do not think a statement is needed
Javier rua Jovet (ALAC):agreed @ron
Javier rua Jovet (ALAC):Question: Has ISOC expressed agrrement or disagreemengt with AJIT PAI'S policies?
Javier rua Jovet (ALAC):excuse typos
Glenn McKnight:Please add your agreement with a GREEN Check mark or RED X if you disagree
Eve Edelson (SF bay area chapter):@WMC, downloaded your FCC comment to read
Bill Jouris:Glenn, exactly WHAT are you asking us to agree or disagree with?
Glenn McKnight:William 's request for a statement
Ron da Silva:NARALO "could" make a statement.. but kind of hard to agree without first coming up with a statement.. so is teh question, "Should we work on a statement?" or is the question, "Should we make a statement?"
Eve Edelson (SF bay area chapter):is it a poll? or just type here?
Yubelkys Montalvo:not sure
Javier rua Jovet (ALAC):Maybe the question is not whether ICANN should comment a provincial administrative norm form one country. Maybe NARALO should say something?
Eve Edelson (SF bay area chapter):@wmc I see your point, but I don't think we'll have concensus right now.
Ron da Silva:please clarify the "question" ?
Eve Edelson (SF bay area chapter):no (for now)
Tom Lowenhaupt:But please qualify the vote.
Susannah Gray (SF-Bay ISOC Chapter):Eve, click on the hands up icon and a drop down menu will show the check marks
Jonathan Zuck (Indie):@Ron. I guess "working on one" is a defacto plan to share one. It's a philosophical issue, a political issue, an implementation issue, etc. etc.
Eve Edelson (SF bay area chapter):ok thx done
Ron da Silva:@zuck.. working on one is a task.. perhaps if in working on that task we can't come up with a consensus based statement then it becomes a "no" ?
Tom Lowenhaupt:What statement?
John More:no place for my X I can see
John More:probably because Dustin represents ISOC-DCð
Mark Buell:Thanks, everyone. If you have questions, you can reach me at buell@isoc.org
judith hellerstein 2:HI John for the recordunder the hand raised icon you move it down further and see the agree/disagree
Javier rua Jovet (ALAC):Comment: I dont think we should comment particular administrative action from one country. But We can all agree that we support -that we must support- Network Neutrality. If not, we should be kicked out from ICANN.
judith hellerstein 2:Thanks mark for your presentation
Eve Edelson (SF bay area chapter):+1 @javier
Heidi Ullrich:Her request is being processed and should be announced shortly.
Jonathan Zuck (Indie):@Javier - of course but part of the task will be defining it
judith hellerstein 2:@heidi confused about your chat
Matthew Rantanen - Native Public Media:+1Javier
Leah Symekher:It does not look like I will have time in this meeting to share NOMCOM updates so please visit the new NOMCOM 2018 website: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_nomcom2018&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=CXERzIws_vaPY8WrLB9yz2PICpecEh3yA9MaabnyyBk&m=nL2trpGb1cCJYogplNLSlTnv6gbmxL2LgFM7IFZc6AA&s=nd0xSl7ttqqCTAoqE0YwJt1Z3b5wNyv1E2vr_2thQVU&e=
Glenn McKnight:https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/NARALO/pages/110245382/NARALO+Outreach+and+Engagement+2018+workspace
Yubelkys Montalvo:ok great
Tom Lowenhaupt:On time . Thanks.
Jonathan Zuck (Indie):Thank you!
Yubelkys Montalvo:yes
Heidi Ullrich:@All, reminder - FY19 Additional Budget Requests due on Friday, 12 January.
Allan Skuce:happy new year everyone
Yubelkys Montalvo:thanks
Susannah Gray (SF-Bay ISOC Chapter):thanks all
Allan Skuce:bye
Yubelkys Montalvo:bye
Javier rua Jovet (ALAC):bye
Glenn McKnight:Mario how many people used the french channel
Glenn McKnight:bye all
Silvia Vivanco:Thank you ! Bye all have a nice day !