AC Chat: 2018-08-08 Consolidated Policy Working Group Call

Andrea Glandon: (8/8/2018 12:53) Welcome to the Consolidated Policy Working Group call held on Wednesday, 08 August 2018 at 19:00 UTC.
  Evin Erdoğdu: (13:48) Hello all!
  Vanda Scartezini: (13:50) hi everyone
  Andrea Glandon: (13:50) Welcome, Vanda!
  Vanda Scartezini: (13:50) thanks Andrea
  Vanda Scartezini: (13:52) need to restart my MAC. will eb back soon
  Jonathan Zuck: (13:57) Thanks Andrea. 
  Andrea Glandon: (13:57) You're welcome!
  Jonathan Zuck: (13:57) Did you guys get my slides?
  Vanda Scartezini: (13:58) I am back
  Andrea Glandon: (13:58) Yes, uploading them now
  Jonathan Zuck: (13:58) Thank you! Sorry for the last minute. i'm at the beach trying to reconcile everyone's comments
  Holly Raiche: (13:58) @ Jonathan - I assume you are asking staff about the slides?
  Andrea Glandon: (13:58) No worries, thank you Jonathan!
  Heidi Ullrich: (13:59) +1 Jonathan!
  Evin Erdoğdu: (13:59) Agenda: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/x/6-PvBQ
  Jonathan Zuck: (13:59) Yes @Holly. Sorry for the ambiguity
  Evin Erdoğdu: (14:00) Google DOC proposal: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_spreadsheets_d_1agNhbXfXLPQIRTGjC-2D8U-2Dl534SWpbnsiapi-2Dfi5mzFw_edit-3Fusp-3Dsharing&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=k7uKdjSb7_ZjItyVqrCYHo_rKms9SFxlmbYEJqG-y9I&m=DaQOFiqiv6jiLliMsO7UXVrMlUbFhyahU2Geiaj6UL4&s=yL9feWDmdHZV9QyTKJswzPBfeS1a-fAKRbeeOKxOSTw&e=
  Eduardo Diaz: (14:00) Q: How were the members of this group determined?
  Jonathan Zuck: (14:01) Eduardo, which group? the CPWG. It's all volunteer
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:01) It is open as far as I know Edwardo,  but insanity may be a desirable prerequisite
  Alan Greenberg: (14:01) ED: This CPWG group?
  Holly Raiche: (14:01) yes
  Eduardo Diaz: (14:01) The CPWG - I looked at the memebr list in the wiki and there are LOTS of members
  Alan Greenberg: (14:02) It is the union of the gTLD, Registration Issues and IANA groups.
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:02) Yes that is the nature of Open
  Eduardo Diaz: (14:02) IN fact some of the members in the NARALO list are even repeated.
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:02) LOL  OCL
  Hadia Elminiawi: (14:02) yes hello all
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:02) repeats are obviously errors or there is more insanity than I realised
  Eduardo Diaz: (14:02) And even members that not even participate in NARALO  at all
  Alan Greenberg: (14:03) ie it is the consolodation of those policy groups. Thus the name "consolidated policy WG"
  Jonathan Zuck: (14:03) Eduardo, it's not just NARALO. this is the policy group for all of at-large
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:03) However Eduardo anyone representing ALAC/At-Large or active IN any of the POlicy Work **should** turn up to both report and interact with us for feedback input etc.,
  Eduardo Diaz: (14:04) @Jonathan: I understand that, it is just misleading showing memebers that are not even active anywhere else.
  Alan Greenberg: (14:04) Eduardo, "showing" where?
  Alfredo Calderon: (14:04) Probably a task for Staff to update and confirm membership.
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:05) If they want to appraise themselves or get involved or give input then *this* is a place for them to start perhaps before they join any actual PDP
  Eduardo Diaz: (14:05) @Alan: in the wiki for the cpwg  here - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_pages_viewpage.action-3FpageId-3D82411661&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=k7uKdjSb7_ZjItyVqrCYHo_rKms9SFxlmbYEJqG-y9I&m=DaQOFiqiv6jiLliMsO7UXVrMlUbFhyahU2Geiaj6UL4&s=Q28bo-KeVjUX6-dzWatmxBlR7hJRrmyUkQDh82uQV0U&e=
  Eduardo Diaz: (14:06) I understand that - it is just the member list is not real
  Eduardo Diaz: (14:07) Just mention this because the talk about metrics in the email list
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:07) By what measure Eduardo underrepresentation people NOT listed???
  Holly Raiche: (14:07) @ Ed - like so many lists of members, it's not relevant - it's who's doing the work!
  Jonathan Zuck: (14:08) Exactly @Holly
  Holly Raiche: (14:08) Can we please spend time on the work before us - NOT on the WG structure
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (14:08) @Eduardo: the difference here is that nobody is representing RALOs or appointed, except those on the EPDP
  Eduardo Diaz: (14:08) OK. 
  Holly Raiche: (14:09) Why are we talking about the WG - and not the matters at hand!
  Eduardo Diaz: (14:10) @Holly - because of metricss.
  Eduardo Diaz: (14:10) @ Holly - but we can talk about this offline
  Holly Raiche: (14:10) @ Ed - please deal with this off line - not taking up time on this call
  Evin Erdoğdu: (14:12) Google DOC proposal: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_spreadsheets_d_1agNhbXfXLPQIRTGjC-2D8U-2Dl534SWpbnsiapi-2Dfi5mzFw_edit-3Fusp-3Dsharing&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=k7uKdjSb7_ZjItyVqrCYHo_rKms9SFxlmbYEJqG-y9I&m=DaQOFiqiv6jiLliMsO7UXVrMlUbFhyahU2Geiaj6UL4&s=yL9feWDmdHZV9QyTKJswzPBfeS1a-fAKRbeeOKxOSTw&e=
  Holly Raiche: (14:13) We appreciate the sacrifice
  Andrea Glandon: (14:14) @Jonathan, I have made you a presenter or I can change the slides for you.
  Jonathan Zuck: (14:15) I can advance
  Andrea Glandon: (14:15) Great, thank you!
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:15) Seb it took me exactly 32 secs including log in and review time to fix the missing text " former ICANN Board Director selected by At-Large"  as seen next to Rinallia next to ypours *if* that was what you were refering to... Staff will fix the table width format... I want to focus on the substantive work here now
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:15) That really *is* a great slide background
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:16)  by 31 Oct the PC will have closed Holly
  Jonathan Zuck: (14:16) I guess you can't hear me
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (14:16) have we lost Jonathan?
  christopher wilkinson: (14:16) Agree with Holly. We do not need to adress ALL the questions in the A nnexe.
  Andrea Glandon: (14:16) I see that he is still connected
  Holly Raiche: (14:18) My suggestion - participate in the first process - what are the issues?  Once we have a list we can hone in on the actual document.  So maybe use the wiki space for talking on issues
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (14:18) it's just time consuming. But I would be ready to finish reading the rest of the 200 boxes & comment where needed
  Holly Raiche: (14:19) @ Jonathan - the end document will have to identify the numbers of clauses we are respnding to
  Holly Raiche: (14:21) @ Jonathan - maybe take a straw poll against each issue?
  Marita Moll: (14:21) Totally agree with Alan's comments
  Alan Greenberg: (14:22) Christopher's mic is open
  Alan Greenberg: (14:22) And Vanda
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (14:25) https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_news_announcement-2D2018-2D06-2D20-2Den&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=k7uKdjSb7_ZjItyVqrCYHo_rKms9SFxlmbYEJqG-y9I&m=DaQOFiqiv6jiLliMsO7UXVrMlUbFhyahU2Geiaj6UL4&s=87ADlWBqA8_JXblkyvP-RBIIDicjjZ11QIHrF92mSIA&e=
  Vanda Scartezini: (14:25) mute sorry
  Holly Raiche: (14:25) Agree with Alan - we probably need both
  Holly Raiche: (14:25) Thanks OCL
  Alan Greenberg: (14:26) This is not a question of whether we like metrics. It is what should be built into the program.  
  Holly Raiche: (14:27) Agree with Ed and Alan
  Alan Greenberg: (14:27) Metrics that are the demographics of the applicant pool will defacto exist. What do we have to add?
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:27) End users can be interested in B2C of course
  Jonathan Zuck: (14:28) SSAC has said that's not soon though
  Holly Raiche: (14:29) Agree with Jonathan - SSAC has done papers on this issue
  Sebastien: (14:30) I was talking about metrics to be included in the progra
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (14:30) Also the IHTI initiative is constantly looking at the Identifier Technology Health Indicators -- https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_ithi-2Dfaqs&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=k7uKdjSb7_ZjItyVqrCYHo_rKms9SFxlmbYEJqG-y9I&m=DaQOFiqiv6jiLliMsO7UXVrMlUbFhyahU2Geiaj6UL4&s=fbfZEzl_z2arfQzNT6I-7bQag3tr_GA8I0Ij2fZx3eM&e=
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (14:30) So that is also a process that's already ingrained in the program and that we should insist the next round should take into account
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (14:31) PIC -- BIGLY!
  Holly Raiche: (14:31) Yes include
  Holly Raiche: (14:31) That will be useful to start
  Holly Raiche: (14:32) We did have stuff to say on this issue earlier
  Jonathan Zuck: (14:33) Exactly. Need to decide that first. 
  Maureen Hilyard: (14:34) +1 Olivier
  Jonathan Zuck: (14:34) agreed. there was a mentor program for with both mentors and mentees signed up but nothing happened
  Holly Raiche: (14:34) We are doing what you asked us not to - we need to get through the list so PLEASE just indicate is it's our probblem
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (14:35) I wonder -- I recall some contracted parties pledging that they would provide in kind applicant support such as help with applications etc. Do any of us know whether any such support was ever sought/provided?
  Holly Raiche: (14:35) We did support IDNs - so it should be on our list
  Eduardo Diaz: (14:35) Yes, and it should be reqiured.
  Alan Greenberg: (14:35) I've always considered that the developing world showed great wisdon by not applying.
  Jonathan Zuck: (14:35) agree Alan
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:36) Before you move to Agenda Item 3 (and I switch to secondary AC connection only) as I start another call at the top of the hour  I would like to share an FYI  on this topic from other parts of ICANN with you (2 mins max)
  Holly Raiche: (14:36) We could ask llianna about their community name -the first community application - in Armenia
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:36) should read to AGenda item 4
  Alan Greenberg: (14:36) Is it clear to anyone what the gTLD program can do about UA (other than forbidding the troublesome TLDs)?
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:37)  sorry typing in the dark here
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:38) Alan just like with other tech Specs it can advise/require
  Holly Raiche: (14:38) @ Alan - understand UA is largely  outside of this remit - but maybe just go through the long list - I did see it mentioned in the Appendix
  Jonathan Zuck: (14:38) it just has SO much impact on the sucess of the new gTLD program
  Holly Raiche: (14:38) @ Jonathan - which is why I put it on my list
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:39) UA was specified as a matter for SubPro and was dealt with in WT4
  Alan Greenberg: (14:39) It is crucial to the program's success, but it is not clear to me what the program can do to fix the problem, other than have the program allocate $ to the issue.
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (14:39) +1 Tijani. Perhaps we need to think creatively on Applicant Support
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:40) Indeed we seem to all be agreeing to agree to agree to respond to some of these topics ;-)
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (14:40) UA is a worthy cause.
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (14:41) We need to support our point of view on the fees.
  Holly Raiche: (14:41) I see this issue as part of the larger issue of support for some applicants
  Lutz Donnerhacke: (14:41) The price is still to low. It should really prohibit any application.
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (14:41) Becuase that is a part of the income for ICANN & ending with exacty what Alan"s speaking about
  Holly Raiche: (14:42) @ Lutz- we are back into debate on the issues - let's at least get through the list
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:43) audio
  Heidi Ullrich: (14:43) Andrea is working to find the line with the noise. 
  Alan Greenberg: (14:43) That was a discussion about why it is important to cover.
  Holly Raiche: (14:44) Are we concerned with this - not really interested
  Jonathan Zuck: (14:44) I"m inclined to agree @Holly
  Holly Raiche: (14:45) Folks - we do not need detailed comments on each issue - just whether it is an issue for us
  Holly Raiche: (14:46) That comes under applicant suppport?
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (14:46) I am divided on this issue. One problem is that of  (in 2.5.1) "To the extent that warehousing/squatting of TLDs has taken place and may occur in the future, what other restrictions/methodologies, beyond pricing, might prevent such behavior?"
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (14:47) Row 94?
  Holly Raiche: (14:49) @ OCL - so you can be the pen holder for this issue!
  Holly Raiche: (14:50) On jurisdiction -  it this really an issue for us - I think not
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (14:51) and we know that some organisations are using one purpose built company per application so a ceiling on the maximum number of applications from a single entity is already broken
  Holly Raiche: (14:51) It's not as important for us as community applications or PICS
  Alan Greenberg: (14:52) Olivier, it is important, but what can we do about it?
  Holly Raiche: (14:52) Tha's too hard - it's about content control - NOT in ICANN's remit
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:53) LOL :-)  Greg
  Alan Greenberg: (14:53) Can we say that registries should not be allowed in some jurisdictions?  SO far from our capabilities....
  Lutz Donnerhacke: (14:54) Nope. ICANN is about electing registries and supervision of their operation. It's easier in some areas than in others.
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:54) I will only be in AC Now not on Phone bridge
  Greg Shatan: (14:55) The Windmills of our minds?
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (14:55) It is a comple topic. @Jonathan, I agree, probably not a key issue for us
  Holly Raiche: (14:55) It may be worthy of our attention but agree with Greg - it's probably #40 on our list of important issue
  Evin Erdoğdu: (14:56) Noted @Cheryl
  Jonathan Zuck: (14:57) Agree. Also for the 3rd parties
  Jonathan Zuck: (14:57)  Yes on such things as strong confusion
  Holly Raiche: (14:57) Agree with the principle - but is this high on he list - excepet we need to make it easy for community applicants who wan a name
  Jonathan Zuck: (14:59) let's address via the communithy application stuff then.
  Holly Raiche: (14:59) @ Jonathan =- agree
  Alan Greenberg: (15:00) we are 2/3 through the meeting time. Where are we on the slide deck?
  Jonathan Zuck: (15:00) 13/19
  Alan Greenberg: (15:00) Thx
  Maureen Hilyard: (15:00) But this is important discussion
  Hadia Elminiawi: (15:00) +1 Maureen
  Holly Raiche: (15:00) The problem is that almost all the topics are important
  Sebastien: (15:01) It would have been always premature for the Board to sign of the gTLD program
  Jonathan Zuck: (15:01) We shouljd push back on stuch things
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (15:01) let's speed up. I promise to intervene less ;-)
  Maureen Hilyard: (15:01) but the discussion as to whether we comment on a topic is important too
  Lutz Donnerhacke: (15:01) To speed up, you need to moderate harder.
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (15:02) I must admit I did not understand our PoV on RSP. Perhaps this is out of our remit?
  Alan Greenberg: (15:02) Accred has an implication in that it may result in lower fees, but it is really out of our scope.
  Holly Raiche: (15:02) Out of scope
  Alan Greenberg: (15:03) Agree with Seb. 
  Alan Greenberg: (15:04) Bottom line is last time ICANN replicated evaluiating the same org MANY times and that was plain stupid.
  Sebastien: (15:04) I still support to have categories
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (15:04) +1 @Sébastien
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (15:05) + brands for ICANN to fill up its bank account
  Jonathan Zuck: (15:05) true Olivier
  Holly Raiche: (15:07) Maybe we get money grubbing on behalf of ICANN!?
  Jonathan Zuck: (15:08) that's probably not our business, right?
  Holly Raiche: (15:08) True
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (15:08) more money for ICANN is better for ICANN policy development, outreach & engagement, which is what is currently being cut due to a lower ICANN budget
  Tijani BEN JEMAA: (15:08) against open round
  Greg Shatan: (15:09) I agree that the continuous window is a rabbit hole.
  Alan Greenberg: (15:09) No way to enforce
  Kaili Kan: (15:09) I don't think we have enough evidence to go either way.   If so, we should not take a position.
  Holly Raiche: (15:09) How on earth would this be policed?
  Holly Raiche: (15:12) @ Kaili - we can't hear you
  Kaili Kan: (15:12) Thank you.  That is it.
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (15:13) I mentioned this earlier re: launch
  Holly Raiche: (15:13) I think this is part of the bigger process issue
  Alan Greenberg: (15:14) PC ends in under 4 weeks!
  Maureen Hilyard: (15:14) Very productive meeting.. and interesting too
  Hadia Elminiawi: (15:14) indeed maureen
  Jonathan Zuck: (15:14) @Alan, I know I know. The process questions got a little spurious
  Andrea Glandon: (15:15) Hadia is here
  Holly Raiche: (15:15) @ Jonathan - but we needed the time and we got through the llist!
  Jonathan Zuck: (15:16) Yes, HUGE list of questions.
  Holly Raiche: (15:20) That's the issue - personal information may be made public in the context of legal persons
  Hadia Elminiawi: (15:21) correct alan
  Hadia Elminiawi: (15:21) friday
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (15:25) thank you Alan / Hadia
  Hadia Elminiawi: (15:29) no it is not being looked at
  Vanda Scartezini: (15:30) I need to leave for another call. thanks for this general update
  Holly Raiche: (15:30) I have to leave this call soon - so apologies  if we go on
  Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond: (15:30) We will go for another 5 minutes only
  Holly Raiche: (15:30) Tks
  Lutz Donnerhacke: (15:31) Alan, please do so
  Sebastien: (15:34) If I can be invited to the skype chat for the epdp for At-Large people?
  Heidi Ullrich: (15:34) Thanks, All! Very productive call. 
  Holly Raiche: (15:34) Bye bye
  Hadia Elminiawi: (15:35) thank you Olivier jonathan and all bye
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (15:35) bye
  Kaili Kan: (15:35) Thank you all.  Bye!
  Nadira AL-Araj: (15:35) Thank you 
  Evin Erdoğdu: (15:35) Goodbye all, thank you!
  Gordon Chillcott - Greater Toronto Area Linux Users Group: (15:35) Thanks and bye for now