ESADT AC Chat Transcript 2013-01-15

  Gisella Gruber-White:Welcome to the ESADT call on Tuesday 15 January 2013 at 2030 UTC.
  Gisella Gruber-White:Agenda: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/x/1_nuBQ
  Eduardo Diaz:¡Hola a todos!
  Gisella Gruber-White:Hola Eduardo!
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:I can hear morse code
  Gisella Gruber-White:Tijani - we will call you back
  Alan Greenberg:Tijani, we can here you well
  Heidi Ullrich:Hi All
  Ya:Hi Heidi
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:the morse code has stopped a while ago
  Heidi Ullrich:I hear them. They are lovely!
  Heidi Ullrich:Please note that the transcript for last week's call has been posted. Staff will only be taking AIs during this call.
  Avri Doria:I find it difflt tto understand how you are entertaining old recommendations on 27.7 when for 2 years i have been asking for suffrage to be expanded and told we would talk about it at the right time.
  Gisella Gruber-White:Avri and EEduardo have been added to the participants list
  Avri Doria:i know many of you object to giving suffrage, but to give me the run around for 2 years and then refuse to discuss it is beyond understanding.
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:can we have scroll on the doc please
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:I'm disconnecting from phone  to hard to hear many of you I'll use the AC
  Heidi Ullrich:Cheryl, you should have it now
  Heidi Ullrich:Can everyone scroll on their own now?
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:nope
  Heidi Ullrich:ok, now
  Heidi Ullrich:?
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2: yes
  Heidi Ullrich:G and I both had clicked the magic button so cancelled each other out ;)
  Alan Greenberg:"formal vote"
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:A Vote outcome  from the RALO's  perhaps
  Ya:@Carlton,  I agree with the principle, then we need to adjust the formulation
  Carlton Samuels:@Ya: Happy to have your support
  Heidi Ullrich:Ya is Yaovi
  Gisella Gruber-White:Dev is joining the call
  Carlton Samuels:I don't think you can by-pass safeguards with THREE formal actions of  RALOs!
  Alan Greenberg:Yaovi can change the name he is using by clicking the little icon to the right of the "Attendees" heading and click EDIT MY INFO
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:Iv only that were true arltin  *sigh*
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:should read  IF only that were true Carlton
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:aitonmg that tyoe of information  would  be unwise  I would have thought  Carlton
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:No this proceedure  must  stay Avri IMO
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:thry need to  HAVE applied
  Carlton Samuels:@CLO: I don't think we need to know all of the information.  But this valve allows some relief, even without knowing why candidates were disqualified.
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:experience may differ there  Carlton  BUT the point is  what is lost  by the RALO inputs  (IF they are put in at all)  having to Piut in an EoI???
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:Yes  Alan  the ALSes  would be required  for a RALO to have formalised any input of additional to the slate
  Gisella Gruber-White:CHeryl - we are dialling out to you
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:O
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:k
  Heidi Ullrich:we are working on the technical issues
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:Agree totally zTijaini
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:EoIs need to be submitted in any case. No EoI= no information about the candidate in time to check them out
  Alan Greenberg:or to inform the electorate
  Carlton Samuels:At OCL: Of course, the EOI IS required!!
  Alan Greenberg:Problem with that is that according to RALO rules, ALS weighting is not equal.
  Heidi Ullrich:Hi All, I need to drop off this call for another call. Silvia will note any Action Items
  Heidi Ullrich:I will stay in the AC room, though.
  Alan Greenberg:I don't have a replacement but I find the word "suggest" just a bit soft.
  Yrjö Länsipuro:to put forword
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Avri, I appreciate what you are saying by having a note of support from ALSes for a candidate. Since we are saying 3 of 5 RALOs need to support, then would you say 60% of ALSes need to support? I would be surprised if a candidate obtains 60% of support they would not be supported by 3 out of 5 RALOs
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:Propose?
  Avri Doria:I suggest that 27.7 a be changed to read: 27.7a) The electorate for the final election shall be the fifteen ALAC members plus the ALS primary representatives each getting a single vote.
  Avri Doria:it was not all of a sdden
  Avri Doria:i have been trying to get a hearing on this for 2 years
  Dev Anand Teelucksingh:the problem with Avri's suggestion that a region/RALO with many ALSes can outvote a region/RALO with less ALSes
  Avri Doria:OCL: i think the 60% threshhold was good for a nomination.
  Carlton Samuels:@Dev: The flip side of my question.  How do we account the votes of  the 546M Chinese users?  
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:yes  Germany holds huge sway  under that option  in EURALO with more ALSes than almost the rest of the Region'  we  must deal with weighting issue  WHEN we make this sort of change
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:with onky 4 Chinese ALSes
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:yup  cpmpared to Germany
  Carlton Samuels:And how many Chinese ALS are there?  Do we make the wieght her proprotional to the overal numbers of Internet users?
  Carlton Samuels:Thank you CLO!  Didn't know the numbers
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:we need to deal with weighting  somehow
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:Germanty has  *-9 Alses  China  4 (maonland and terratories)
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:CaN WE RECOMMEND TO THE alac THAT  this issue  IS looked at as a priority issue  with the whole of At-Large... thus  put  this 27.7  onto the rules  and then ensure that 27.87  ONLY  is fully reviewed  Post Haste
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:As we need to deal with extended issues  including the wieghting issue  
  Alan Greenberg:Cheryl has no voice connection. Can we please find a way to let her speak??
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:this  allows  for a full and frank dicussion and deliberation on these  ALSes directly being in the Electorate chage proposal
  Carlton Samuels:@CLO suggestion:  I support
  Dev Anand Teelucksingh:the weighting is being applied by making regions equally present in the electorate - RALOs have 3 members in the electorate - 2 ALAC and RALO chair all selected/elected by the ALSes in the region
  Dev Anand Teelucksingh:support the full discussion as per CLO's suggestion
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:See BC& D  would then still stand  only the Electorate  definition issue and matters  DIRECTLY  resulting  out of that  need to be reviewed ASAP
  Avri Doria:if this DT recommends to ALAC that the subject ot suffrage be discussed by At-LARGE before the elction and 27.7 therefore goes forwarded as bracketed langauge i will desist for now.
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:e.g.  no need to a Doirected Vote if ALSes  (or Countries)  are voting directly themselves
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2: and I AGree with Tijani TOTALLY
  Avri Doria:but only if it is discussed before the upcoming election.
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:[bracketed language] means you've spent too much time at [WCIT]
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:thus my propsal for Poste Haste
  Avri Doria:diplomacy used [] long before wcit
  Carlton Samuels:@Tijani: I reject the notion of a directed vote in its entirety.  +1.
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:possibly { }
  Avri Doria:ls in this formal language whould be replaced with what ever we replace formal language with earlier
  Avri Doria:[UN] has used [brackets] forever
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:I.m NOT a fan of Directed votes  but we have at least 1-2 RALO that believes they should  ( in fat they disire ALL  votes  in ALAC  by their Reps  to be Direxted *shudder)
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:Yes they would be coupled
  Avri Doria:i think people should be allowed to vote for themselves.
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:Keep  c  unless there is No Direction of votes
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr 2:we know that Avri
  Avri Doria:especially if there are enough votes
  Avri Doria:i mean a voter who is a candidate should be able to vote for themselves, thank you very much CLO.  i bet you did not know that.
  Avri Doria:i think b is nonsense, but not enough to fight about.
  Yaovi Atohoun:I would like Alan to explain "direct voting" so that we have the same understanding
  Avri Doria:lets outlaw it!
  Avri Doria:outlaw directed votes!
  Alan Greenberg:For b, I would suggest "may name" instead of "will name".
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:happy to get rid of directed. otes BUT there were RALOs that insisted on it for this rule last time...
  Yaovi Atohoun:I am disconnected
  Alan Greenberg:s ANYONE here advocating directed votes for ALAC members? If not, let's propose to ALAC to not allow them/
  Yaovi Atohoun:Maybe  set for 1 hour?
  Silvia Vivanco:We are redialing him
  Yaovi Atohoun:not yet
  Carlton Samuels:Listen, some RALO actually direct the vote of their ALAC reps!
  Carlton Samuels:This is the case for LACRALO!
  Carlton Samuels:You cannot make a distinction between ALAC reps and RALO chair that is universal!
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:agree with OCL
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@Alan: I think it would help if this was mentioned, yes
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:This would put less pressure on ALAC members
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:agree Alan
  Carlton Samuels:@Alan: I agree with the linkage!
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:ifan ALAC member decides to follow his/her region's vote, it is entirely their choice. I would be happy if they do, but it is their choice
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yup
  Dev Anand Teelucksingh:sigh......how do you prove a ALAC vote is directed or not?
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:make it public
  Avri Doria:and they can vote them out if they are unhappy with their choices.
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:you send the confirmation of the vote you've made to the list
  Dev Anand Teelucksingh:So, 27.8  (a) would be removed - all votes shall be by secret ballot?
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:by default secret ballot. But someone can always vote & announce their vote publicly. by taking screen dump, for example
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:I agree to Alan's suggestion on 27.7d
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:ok with those proposed changes
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:If the ALAC member is sensitive to the wishes of his/her region and wishes to vote accordingly, they have the option to do so.
  Heidi Ullrich:Yrjo, should the next call be next week or in two weeks ?
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:next week
  Heidi Ullrich:Thanks, Cheryl
  Yaovi Atohoun:@Cheryl  +
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:we should do it before the next election
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yes
  Silvia Vivanco:Could you please summarize the AI as you would like it recorded?
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:and this team can recommend an urgent review of the electorate definition
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:thus my proposal
  Carlton Samuels:Bye all
  Gisella Gruber-White:thank you everyone!
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:thanks all bye
  Avri Doria:Ican just see the ALAC istem:  "we dont want to talk about this do we" all in favort" " thanks we wont talk it."
  Dev Anand Teelucksingh:thanks all, bye
  Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Interesting discussions