21 January 2015
- Mary Wong
Analytics
The next meeting of the new IGO-INGO Access to Curative Rights Protection Mechanisms Working Group is scheduled the following week on Wednesday 21 January 2015 2014 at 17:00 UTC (09:00 PST, 12:00 EST, 17:00 London, 18:00 CET)
For other times: http://tinyurl.com/p5etnjj
Adobe Connect WITH AUDIO enabled: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/crp/
Agenda:
- Roll Call/Updates to SOI
- Discuss IGO small group response relating only to Article 6ter and standing (to ensure the WG agrees on and understand the protections conferred by 6ter versus a national TM registration)
- Discuss draft “alternative” UDRP (solely in relation to the standing requirement)
- Next steps/next meeting
Documents for Review:
IGO small group response - 19 Jan 2015
UDRP "thought exercise" - DRAFT - 14 Jan 2015
MP3 Recording: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-crp-access-21jan15-en.mp3
Meeting Transcript:
Attendees:
George Kirikos - Individual
Petter Rindforth – IPC
Phil Corwin – BC
Kristine Dorrain- Individual
Mason Cole – RySG
David Maher – RySG
Val Sherman - IPC
Gary Campbell - GAC
Jay Chapman – Individual
Kathy Kleiman - NCUC
David Heasley – IPC
Nat Cohen – BC
Alexander Lehrman -
Apologies:
Paul Keating
Paul Tattersfield
ICANN staff:
Mary Wong
Steve Chan
Nathalie Peregrine
Adobe Connect chat transcript for Wednesday, 21 January 2015:
Nathalie Peregrine:Dear all, welcome to the IGO-INGO Curative Rights Protection PDP WG Meeting on the 21 January 2015
Philip Corwin:Good morning or whatever to all who are joining the call
George Kirikos:Hi everyone.
George Kirikos:The Adobe took 2 tries to load. Very odd.
Val Sherman:Hello everyone
George Kirikos:Hi Val.
Kristine Dorrain-NAF:Hello everyone! Just a pre-apology...I have to cut out early, in 1/2 hour.
Mary Wong:@Kristine, thanks for the head's up. If you have comments on the agenda items that we don't get to before you drop off, would you mind typing them here in chat or sending an email?
Mary Wong:We will draft a proposed agenda for the chairs and WG before next week's call, to review/discuss/edit.
Petter Rindforth:Kristine, if you have time, please e-mail me/us your comments on point 3
Nathalie Peregrine:Kathy Kleiman and gary Campbell have joined the call
Mary Wong:Note that when acknowledging receipt of the response, we also noted that the WG has since proceeded with a deeper analysis of 6ter per Phil's summary - so there ought not to be any further misunderstanding as to the nature of 6ter protctions.
George Kirikos:Signatories are countries --- not the public, not ICANN, etc.
George Kirikos:NYSE and NASDAQ issue stock symbols. They're not signatories either (and stock symbols are not trademarks, just like domain names are not TMs).
George Kirikos:Article 6ter, *and* common law.
George Kirikos:1/2 the ICANN reserved IGO names weren't in Article 6ter DB.
George Kirikos:So, presumably even ICANN and the GAC were saying tht the other half were "common law."
Mary Wong:@George, yes - the GAC's list of IGOs is not limited to/determined by notification under 6ter. The GAC defined IGOs as inter-governmental orgs having international legal personality and who are protected under one or more international treaty(ies)
Mary Wong:TRIPS = Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (one of the WTO Agreements from 1994)
Nathalie Peregrine:Nat Cohen has joined the audio bridge
Kathy Kleiman:So where did GAC get its IGO list - do we know?
Mary Wong:That is in the GAC letter enclosing the IGO list, sent in April 2013
George Kirikos:But, there are some marks in the Article 6ter DB that ICANN hasn't reserved.
George Kirikos:Are these the "less important" IGOs? :0
George Kirikos::-)
Kathy Kleiman:Perhaps a good topic of discussion with GAC members (perhaps the letter writers?)
George Kirikos:A treaty between Angola and Kenya might create an IGO, but it shouldn't impact a registrant in Canada or the USA.
Kathy Kleiman:@George, good point
Jay Chapman:George, you comment leads to the question - How does an org become an IGO? How wide and deep can the IGO list become?
George Kirikos:http://www.uia.org/yearbook says there are a lot of them.
George Kirikos:Prevention could happen by making the TMCH apply to existing gTLDs.
George Kirikos:Since, most folks would be completely unaware of most of these IGOs.
Kathy Kleiman:I think the URS is not a good fit for the type of discussion taking place -- because the URS is intended for "quick and easy" decisions and this (IGOs) is fairly complicated (as our many discussions have shown) -- a much better match with UDRP, I think, than URS.
George Kirikos:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intergovernmental_organization "Held and McGrew (2002) counted thousands of IGOs worldwide,[7] and this number continues to rise"
Nathalie Peregrine:Alexander Lehrman has joined the audio bridge
Kathy Kleiman:@Mary, what's an alternate word to "rights"??
George Kirikos:Perhaps use the word "privilege"
Mary Wong:@Kathy, we are more concerned with using descriptions like "common law rights". The word "rights" has multiple connotations, and in the legal literature can be contrasted with concepts such as "privileges", "liberties" and so on (channeling Hohfeld from my law prof days :))
Kathy Kleiman:@Mary, I think Phil's explanation makes sense -- a 6ter mark appears to have the limited rights to fight against abusive and misleading uses within the context of trademark offices, etc
George Kirikos:Divine Right of IGOs. :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_right_of_kings
Mary Wong:We suggest sticking with the description (not definition) "protections" for now ...
George Kirikos:ICANN does block IGO registrations on that special list.
George Kirikos:(e.g. eco.horse is blocked)
Mary Wong:@Kathy, that makes sense too - so as long as the WG uses that word/phrase in its full meaning that will be clear.
Kathy Kleiman:"prevention is not foolproof" -- I like this!
George Kirikos:Note that IGOs haven't shown how their needs for online fraud and confusion are "special" relative to any other entity concerned about the same thing, nor have they provided any data on the extent of existing alleged abuse.
George Kirikos:World Bank waived their 'immunity' and brought a successful UDRP.
George Kirikos:My comments on the draft 'thought experiment' text are at: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo-crp/2015-January/000249.html
Mary Wong:Thanks for sending a substantive response so quickly, George!
George Kirikos:Paul Keating couldn't make it, but was opposed to amendment.
George Kirikos:(he sent an email to the list earlier today)
George Kirikos:Is next week just admin stuff for Singapore? (i.e. next steps?)
George Kirikos:Perhaps folks can give their thoughts on the 'thought experiment' on the mailing list, if there's a 2 week gap to the next substantive meeting.
Kathy Kleiman:Tx you - very interesting discussion today!
Mary Wong:@George, good idea - we will send a reminder to the list
Mary Wong:There are a few others signed up who are not on the call today
Val Sherman:David Heasley and Jim Bikoff will also join remotely
George Kirikos:Have a wonderful day, everyone!
Val Sherman:Thanks Phil. Thanks all!
Jay Chapman:Good day all
Gary Campbell:Bye