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ALAC 2012.12.20 - AC Chat Transcript

ALAC 2012.12.20 - AC Chat Transcript

Owned by Julia Charvolen
Last updated: Mar 02, 2025 by Aleksey KhapchenkoVersion comment
Gisella Gruber-White:Welcome to the ALAC Monthly Meeting on Thursday 20 December 2012 at 1600 UTC.
  Gisella Gruber-White:Agenda: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/x/MuvuBQ
  Alan Greenberg:The GNSO Council meeting is currently scheduled to last 2.5 hours (a VERY unusual extension from the normal 2 hours) due to the number of substantive issues on the agenda. That maps to 1.5 hours into the ALAC meeting. I will try to keep an I on this chat, but Skype is likely a better way to get my attention if there is some urgent need for my input.
  Natalia Enciso:Hello!
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Thanks Alan
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:If we ened you may we type it here & you'll switch calls?
  Garth Bruen:@Staff, FYI the link for "other times" has the wrong hour
  Evan Leibovitch:ZZZZZZZZ
  Julia Charvolen:thank you Garth, we will change that
  Eduardo Diaz:¡Hola a Todos!
  Maureen Hilyard:Good morning Cheryl
  Maureen Hilyard:and others
  Fatima Cambronero:hello everyone
  Ri:ya ya
  Carlton Samuels:Hi all
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:hi all
  Matt Ashtiani:hello everyone! welcome!
  Evan Leibovitch:Tijani is very faint
  Silvia Vivanco:Cannot hear Tijani
  Carlton Samuels:Tijani VERY low
  Holly Raiche:garth - shall we take this off line - I'll look into it
  Evan Leibovitch:Garth, is your issue one that could be done as email -- does the issue of the Sydney office require *ALAC* intervention?
  Tijani BEN JEMAA:I'm so sorry
  Tijani BEN JEMAA:but it's the phone lines quality
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:no problem. Just speak loudly. I know ho whard it is when the phone line is faint
  Garth Bruen:@Holly thanks
  Evan Leibovitch:That's the nice thing about us being global :-)
  Garth Bruen:@Evan, it's troubling in the context of everything else I'm finding. Following on your concern that "this can't wait until Beijing"
  Evan Leibovitch:@Garth agreed.
  JJS:Olivier and All: my apologies for connecting late.
  Silvia Vivanco:My call was dropped on my AIS
  Silvia Vivanco:1) SV to contact Indian ALS - in Progress. I have contacted APRALO leaders to organize a way forward to better engage them in APRALO
  Heidi Ullrich:There were 28 attendees on the R3 webinar. I believe that was the highest number on an At-Large Briefing call
  Carlton Samuels:@Garth: Maybe you might wish to tell your Aussie Registrar to follow a rule I use: If  he wants the issue to be 'official' then record it. And liberally copy everybody in the chain, including folks in the head shop.
  Silvia Vivanco:2) AI: Completed. I have contacted Bart and he has informed me that the IDN WG can indeed join the ccTLD
  Silvia Vivanco:mailist
  Evan Leibovitch:About R3: The turnout was very gratifying. Too bad that not many of them spoke, we were hoping for more Q&A
  Silvia Vivanco:I have contacted the APRALO WG to inform them of this
  Garth Bruen:@Carlton, he's concerned about his job, and now he's even more paranoid
  Julia Charvolen:Please state your name before transcription purposes, thank you
  Silvia Vivanco:cannot hear Matt
  Silvia Vivanco:yes
  Carlton Samuels:I can't hear Matt!
  Silvia Vivanco:much better
  Evan Leibovitch:Sorry, which ALS application was withdrawn for rework?
  Carlton Samuels:Much better, thanks Matt
  Silvia Vivanco:Tchad ALS
  Evan Leibovitch:Ah, thanks
  Silvia Vivanco:is reorganizing internally
  Holly Raiche:@Matt - I have responded on the ISOC Philippines chapter
  Silvia Vivanco:Yes Holly we received your message . Thank you!!
  Matt Ashtiani:@holly - thank you, i will look for your email shortly and follow up
  Heidi Ullrich:Thanks, Holly!!
  Silvia Vivanco:Not they are not present
  Julia Charvolen:Apologies from Jose Arce
  JJS:Cheryl, could you please turn up your microphone a bit?
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:it is night time and if she speaks any louder she'll wake up the whole neighbourhood
  Wolf Ludwig:Sorry for being late -- conflicting calls ;-)
  Julia Charvolen:Wolf Ludwig joined the call
  JJS:oh, then it's the distance between Australia and France...
  Heidi Ullrich:Apologies for the ES channel issue. It has been solved.
  Evan Leibovitch:Olivier, the issue is not precisely about the Red Cross and Olympic Committee. There is a request from the GAC to extend protection for internationally-recognized NGOs, (the kind that would normally found under the .int TLD such as WIPO, ILO, IPU etc)
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:this is well understood -- and we have a comment to file on this
  Alan Greenberg:I am trying something new today -- updating GNSO Liaison report in real time. SUppressing notification to wathers, but it is there if you look at it - https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/x/9pjwBQ
  Wolf Ludwig:EURALO is posted and done for this year!
  Garth Bruen:Thanks Evan
  Julia Charvolen:Juan Manuel Rojas disconnected
  Garth Bruen:@Oliver even if I mess up call timing?
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:thanks for the link Alan
  Ri:haha
  Garth Bruen:clap clap clap
  Heidi Ullrich:LOL - Olivier!
  Silvia Vivanco::)
  Heidi Ullrich:Demarche
  Garth Bruen:De Marche
  Wolf Ludwig:As far as I have seen, most suggestions were incorporated by Rinalia's draft -- what looks good.
  Julia Charvolen:Juan Manuel Rojas joined the call again
  Garth Bruen:I was thinking about the market, "de marche"
  Silvia Vivanco:Los interpretes no pueden interpretar a Yaovi en Espanol
  Silvia Vivanco:su linea no esta bien
  Garth Bruen:Hopefully the Demarche is not bon marche
  Heidi Ullrich::)
  Holly Raiche:Thanks EvanandCarlton - I agree we send it ias a letter.  Certainly, the issue is important - and will be more so with Beijing and the visa issues that raises
  Garth Bruen:Rather bonne marche
  Carlton Samuels:Chair to Chair, copy...
  Evan Leibovitch:Agree with Olivier. Letter to CEO, Cc to Board PPc.
  Carlton Samuels:THansk JJS, +1
  Holly Raiche:Agree Chiar to Chair, cc to Fadi and PPc
  Evan Leibovitch:that wiorks for me
  Heidi Ullrich:Olivier - would you like staff to take the temperature of the room?
  Yaovi Atohoun:i agree
  JJS:@Olivier, my suggestion: "Finally, you may wish to consider asking  the PPC (Public Participation Committee) to invite the ALAC, or a designated representative from the ALAC, to take part in the work which will be carried out on these important issues."
  JJS:@Staff, as Olivier is busy conducting this meeting, could you kindly take note of my suggestion above, and use it if he approves? Thanks.
  Evan Leibovitch:+1 JJS
  Matt Ashtiani:@JJS - i have included your suggestion in the notes and will follow up after the meeting
  JJS:@Matt: thank you.
  Natalia Enciso:I have to excuse myself, have an urgent matter to solve now at work. Sorry but have to go now.
  Heidi Ullrich:Please refresh your agenda page. The agenda has been updated.
  Heidi Ullrich:A public comment from the ccNSO is expected shortly on the R3
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Thank you Natalia
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yes that one  you will get a rreaction  to
  Evan Leibovitch:Regarding the new GNSO constituency application or cybercafes.... It was not quite NIMBY (not in my backyard) because everyone said they belonged in the GNSO. But nobody wanted them in THEIR constituency group.
  Holly Raiche:Intresting to hear about the ccNSO - thanks Evan
  Evan Leibovitch:Everyone said it was merited but that it ought to be in some OTHER SG. So rather than NIMBY it was, SOBBY (Some Other Bugger's Back Yard)
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:LOL  Evan
  Holly Raiche:Should we wait until we hear back from Alan on where the issue is up to?
  Evan Leibovitch:yes.
  Dev Anand Teelucksingh:apologies....got disconnected when my electricty and net connection went out for the past 40 mins. Now back on the call
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:ergh  Dev glad your back on
  Holly Raiche:Olivier - when you report on WCIT - mention, as you did on the APRALO call, the mixed delegations
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:indeed
  Carlton Samuels:+1 JJS, we must account 'nuance' in these matters
  Carlton Samuels:In context, the LACNIC communique finds my favour
  Heidi Ullrich:Please refresh your agenda pages as the agenda has been updated.
  Heidi Ullrich:This workspace includes several usesful sources of information
  Julia Charvolen:Avri Doria joined Adobe Connect
  Heidi Ullrich:Thanks, Julia. Welcome Avri.
  Holly Raiche:And Australia, please
  Sandra Hoferichter:Some more backgroundinformation from Wolfgang Kleinwächter:http://www.circleid.com/posts/20121217_wcit_and_internet_governance_harmless_resolution_or_trojan_horse/
  Carlton Samuels:@Spam: They want us all to believe that everybody just reads headers!
  Carlton Samuels:Here's what I wrote in the At-Large Skype chat pertaining to the DPI issue: "Yes, Evan gets it.  Here's the thing and lets use the DPI matter for argument's sake. That DPI kerfuffle is purely bullshit. Think the movie Casablanca. Most everybody in Dubai knows a Captain Renault moment when they hear it: "I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here"...this said as he took his winnings from the man.  What was being played out you ask? Purely that the proposers, some of them card-carrying members of 'rendition' teams, are trumping their 'morally superior' others and 'go open' for tools they know damn well their 'betters' already deploy in one or other guise. These guys who are signatories to the DPI proposal read and watch whats going on in 3-4 languages. They know that the British government, likely purveyors of enlightened governance in far off places and territories, proposed a law that literally compelled DPI!  They know the thinking in LHR is not far from theirs.
  Carlton Samuels:They know hypocrisy when they hear it.  ETNO proposed changes in the ITRs that would have given operators, now a mixed bag of private and public entities, pretty much all the cover they need to use DPI tools. They know words have meanings. They have a sense of what must be done when they read words used such as 'verify' and 'validate'. Sure, there are other interests. But it would serve their top-of-mind and coincident ones to go along with ETNO. ETNO as spear chuckers find common ground with the control freaks! The [insert the 'badboy' country here] and all that 'unsavoury' lot are not all common fools. Its not that they have a preference to be "open" on objective. They just don't give a tinker's damn what we think.  Our fellas now....well....
  Sandra Hoferichter:If they are not aware of the multistakeholder modell and do not understand the benefit, it needs more capacity building efforts in this countys. ICANN should improve its efforts in this regard
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Indeed @ Sandra
  Heidi Ullrich:Avri is also on the call. She was at the WCIT as well...
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:and I suspect  Sally and her team are well aware (now) of just that...
  Sandra Hoferichter::)sorry for referring to an ICANN Academy
  Carlton Samuels:Lost my connection
  Heidi Ullrich:Will call you back, Carlton
  Carlton Samuels:Thanks Heidi
  avri:Hi, yeah, i was there for both WTSA and WCIT.  I have a different view than OCL.
  avri:ICANN was not at the WCIT.  And the WCIT was not about ICANN, at all.
  Carlton Samuels:@Avri: Can you do voice? WOuld love to hear....soon as I'm back on please :-)
  Evan Leibovitch:@JJS... thankfully, most graphite in pencils doesn' t contain lead anymore
  Sandra Hoferichter:most graphite in pencils doesn' t contain lead anymore ---what does it mean:)
  Holly Raiche:From wwhat I heard, some of the rposals did suggest the ITU should have a role in naming/numbering - which is ICANN.  Not sure how far that got
  avri:Carlton: I suppose I could, I am only using Adobe.  but I don't see much reason in it.
  Carlton Samuels:Back on voice bridge
  Heidi Ullrich:Welcome back, Carlton
  avri:ICANN, like civil society, was a meta-delegation
  Wolf Ludwig:Strongly agree, JJ!
  Holly Raiche:No - it absolutely does NOT sound mild.  We had a filtering proposal here - which has been abandoned - when both the technical and other issues with DPI were appreciated
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:were concerned about  DPI  in the antipodeas as well JJS  rest assured
  avri:Holly: yes some of the contribution coming in were.  but once the truce between ITU and ICANN was sung, peace ensued and ICANN issues were actually off the docket.  the rest of the Interent was still on the agenda, but not ICANN, that turf was off limits.
  Carlton Samuels:@Avri: I understand your reluctance but I wish you would speak though..
  Evan Leibovitch:@JJS +1
  Heidi Ullrich:Avri, would you like a dial out/
  Heidi Ullrich:?
  Holly Raiche:@ Arvi - thanks - and nice it was off the agenda
  Yaovi Atohoun:I am disconnected
  Carlton Samuels:@JJS: DPI is a GRAVE matter personally.  What I'm very much in favour of is a 'full and frank' discussion on it
  Heidi Ullrich:we could invite Fadi and Sally to such a panel or webinar
  avri:nope, i think i am fne, computer should work for talking when i need to.
  Heidi Ullrich:will dial out to you, Yaovi
  Heidi Ullrich:as wll as the GSE Vice Presidents who were at the WCIT
  Wolf Ludwig:Speak up, Tijani, please!
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:I can not hear Tijani at all sorry
  Juan Manuel Rojas:It sounds far away Tijani
  Heidi Ullrich:Tijani - we need a way to make ICANN more international. WE also need IANA to be more international.
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:thanks  Heidi
  Heidi Ullrich:Tijani - I am against any control of the internet
  Heidi Ullrich:Tijani - I think we need to work together in At-Large to raise awareness in ICANN
  Yaovi Atohoun:i am back
  Heidi Ullrich:Tijani - we need to do more to link our internet and the other views (confirm)
  Heidi Ullrich:Welcome back, Yaovi
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Thanks Heidi  those points are VERY important  Tijani  YES
  Heidi Ullrich:Good connection, Yaovi.
  Tijani BEN JEMAA:Thank you Heidi
  Tijani BEN JEMAA:and sorry for the bad quality of my line
  avri:Carlton: DPI has been a fact of life for a while.  Definately should have serious conversatons on it, but more and ore people are doing it all the time.
  avri:The ITU will not take over the Interent, it will just control it thoguh maybe round about paths.
  avri:A WCIt, the  [camel][ITU] got its [nose][hooks] into the [tent][interent]
  Yaovi Atohoun:Sorry that I am disconnected again
  avri:i had not need to speak, i thought typed comments was sufficinet.
  Julia Charvolen:We will dial out to you
  Alan Greenberg:On call now.
  Carlton Samuels:@Avri: Absolutely!
  Alan Greenberg:Where are we in agenda?
  Yaovi Atohoun:Sorry that I am disconnected again
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:WCIT
  Evan Leibovitch:#7
  Evan Leibovitch:Welcome
  Carlton Samuels:@JJS: There is a expression they used in the black community in Washington DC "Word"!
  Heidi Ullrich:Dialing you back, Yaovi
  Yaovi Atohoun:I am disconnected
  Carlton Samuels:Hence my call for  a "full and frank discussion" discussion re DPI.
  Heidi Ullrich:Yaovi, Adigo is getting RNA for you
  Yaovi Atohoun:Please ask the operator to try +229 97891228
  Heidi Ullrich:Avri - I think having a longer conversation is a good idea. This is only the first act
  Heidi Ullrich:there are several more events in the next couple of year
  Heidi Ullrich:s
  JJS:@Avri, your voice is being filtered through a federal agency, it seems :-)
  Juan Manuel Rojas::)
  Yaovi Atohoun:I am back
  Heidi Ullrich:There is a lot of work on furthering the discussion. Nothing is over on the treaty
  Heidi Ullrich:Who knows what other resolutions will be made
  Heidi Ullrich:ICANN is relatively safe on that front for as long as hte Treaty holds up
  Heidi Ullrich:I think it is good for ICANN....
  Heidi Ullrich:I think that ICANN will be under the microcope after...
  Yaovi Atohoun:I am back. thanks
  Heidi Ullrich:Olivier - is this Webinar only for At-Large?
  Heidi Ullrich:AI: At-Large to host community wide webinar on WCIT outcomes and next steps in January. Nigel Hickson to be invited.
  Heidi Ullrich:AI: OCL will draft first statement on WCIT
  avri:I dialed in for the report.  I realize it was foolish of me to expect the talk part of adobe to work
  Heidi Ullrich:Avri, would you like a dial out?
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Another AI: FCWG to work on a more extensive statement following up on issues raised in WCIT
  Garth Bruen:Just had to restart adobe
  Alan Greenberg:Can I have two minutes in AOB for a very late GNSO report?
  Carlton Samuels:Dear Colleagues, I shall have to go at the hour if I must make the WHOIS call at 2p
  Heidi Ullrich:Carlton, the call with Jean-Francois is in one hour.
  Heidi Ullrich:if that is the Whois call you are talking about
  Carlton Samuels:@Heidi. Yes, at 2p Eastern
  Heidi Ullrich:ok. Carlton
  Wolf Ludwig:Have to leave and feed the kids and cat -- good bye and joyful seasonal holidays to all of you!
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Happy Holidays Wolf!
  Carlton Samuels:Thanks Wolf. Same to you and yours.
  Heidi Ullrich:Frohe Weihnachten, Wolf!
  Wolf Ludwig:Thanks folks -- pleased to hear and meet you soon again!
  JJS:(for Evan: I just sent you a line on a separate chat here)
  Eduardo Diaz:I will have to leave the meeting. I have another commitment to attend too. Thanks you all and Happy Holidays!
  Carlton Samuels:Dropping off now. Have a good break, all of you!
  Heidi Ullrich:Happy Holidays, Carlton!
  Carlton Samuels:Happy Holidays
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Seasons Greetings  Carlton
  avri:it is true, there is not longer such a thing as a decsion that can't be undone.
  JJS:@Alan +1
  Evan Leibovitch:The envorinment may have changed, but the logic has not
  Alan Greenberg:I was trying to imply that a discussion could be driven by the ALAC and not olny the periphery.
  avri:if an ALS feels harmed by it, i do not see why they don't ask to have the RG opinion changed.
  JJS:again, @Alan +1
  avri:but if someone in the ANgWG write a statement, i will put it to the group for work/consensus.
  Evan Leibovitch:Absolutely. What would be useful are any arguments that add to the ones that have already been considered. Repeating previously-advanced arguments and expecting a different outcome is not reasonable
  Dev Anand Teelucksingh:@Alan, @Evan, I recall that on the last ANgWG call, that there was a possibility of having a webinar/conference call with those persons making comments re: private/closed registration of generic words as a TLD
  Evan Leibovitch:@Dev... I have have missed that call for a webinar. I welcome that.
  Alan Greenberg:@Evan, I am one of those who on SOME occasions, choose not to tilt at large and un-movable windmills. This windmill may now have significantly weakend foundations and we *may* wish to do some new tilting...
  avri:Evan, but the world has changed.  I spent a month in ITUland and was frequently reminded of the fact that logic is truly multi-valued.  Same is true in ICANN.
  Yaovi Atohoun:Disconnected  on 9.d (agenda) Please could the operator call me on +229 97891228?
  Julia Charvolen:We are dialing out to you Yaovi
  Yaovi Atohoun:I am back on the call
  Dev Anand Teelucksingh:I think a webinar on the issue be organised ASAP...I suspect it fell thorugh the cracks...
  JJS:@Ri : super!
  Ri:merci!
  Heidi Ullrich:Matt has informed me that out of 29 ALAC members/liaisons/Regional officers - only 11 have been completed....
  Heidi Ullrich:Garth, an announcement on the status of the Sydney office will be made shortly.
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Ive been doiconnected
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:disconnected
  Heidi Ullrich:calling you back, Cheryl
  Silvia Vivanco:who's speaking? Cannot hear
  Juan Manuel Rojas:Tijani?
  Heidi Ullrich:Tijani - Toronto - was asked to leave his hotel room at 10 am on Friday
  JJS:It's Tijani speaking.
  Heidi Ullrich:They want us to leave us on Friday, Friday is a working day for us
  JJS:This is an example which can be included in Olivier's letter to Steve.
  Yaovi Atohoun:@Tijani: could you speak a bit loudly?
  Heidi Ullrich:For the next meeting in Beijing, they asked me to leave on Friday. There is no flight on Friday other than a late flight. They wanted me to pay for Saturday
  JJS:(I too had to pay the last night in Toronto, at a high rate!)
  JJS:Olivier, this fits under your next letter to Steve...
  JJS:We are much volunteers as are Board members. I agree with Tijani.
  Garth Bruen:@Tijani: I am creating suplimental reports on travel issues and soliciting comments from At-Large members. I hope I get a more detailed statement from you for the report.
  Evan Leibovitch:+1 Tijani, Alan, etc
  Ri:++1
  Garth Bruen:@Heidi, so they moved it but didn't update the website?
  JJS:@Alan +1, and it's time ICANN realized that the volunteer factor is so crucial to its relevance.
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:ABSOLUTLY!!!!
  avri:Alan, does 'penny wise, pund foolish' work?
  Evan Leibovitch:As Alan says, this represents a continuing attitude that ICANN sees its subsidizing our participation as charity
  avri:i mean 'penny wise, pound foolish'
  Sandra Hoferichter:At least I was always successful asking for a late check out that day
  Heidi Ullrich:@Garth, an announcemet is expected shortly.
  JJS:@Olivier: this reinforces my suggestion that you add a couple of lines on this specific point in your letter to Steve.
  avri:yeah, and i fought for that Saturday departure.
  Garth Bruen:I think a "buffer" period for meetings is at a minimum humane
  avri:the whole call was worth listeinign too.
  Sandra Hoferichter:Sorry I have to leave taking care for my daughters dinner, wish you all the best for Christmas and a happy start into 2013!
  Evan Leibovitch:Alan, I volunteer to work with you in the TMCH strawman, both on process and subsrance
  Garth Bruen:@Sandra, at least your kids will eat
  JJS:(anticipating on the end of this 'phone conference) I wish you a wonderful holiday season, and success and happiness in 2013!
  JJS:(to All)
  Evan Leibovitch:Best to all.. Take a break from ICANN for a while ;-)
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Indeed  Greatings of the Season to All
  Heidi Ullrich:Happy Holidays  and all the best for 2013.
  Sandra Hoferichter::) garth
  Heidi Ullrich:An exciting year awaits!
  Juan Manuel Rojas:@Olivier.. Time's up!
  Juan Manuel Rojas:hahaha
  Juan Manuel Rojas:Thanks to all
  Juan Manuel Rojas:Greetings to all!
  Garth Bruen:Have a safe mayan doomsday
  Fatima Cambronero:happy holidays for all of you!
  Maureen Hilyard:All the best of the season to all. Look forward to 2013
  Sandra Hoferichter:bye, bye
  Juan Manuel Rojas:Enjoy the end of the world!
  Ri:bye!
  Silvia Vivanco:Happy Holidays all!
  Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Happy Holidays/ Merry Christmas!
  Juan Manuel Rojas:hahaha
  Fatima Cambronero:bye
  Juan Manuel Rojas:Happy Holidays!
  Matt Ashtiani:goodbye everyoe, thank you! happy holidays and happy new year!