Meeting #11 CWG RFP3 (19 Jan)

Transcript 

Transcript RFP3 19 Jan.doc

Transcript RFP3 19 Jan.pdf

Recording

The Adobe Connect recording is available here:  https://icann.adobeconnect.com/p81nkw51sgt/

The audio recording is available here:  https://icann.box.com/shared/static/ow1fa9b1snlyd75ntjug1eewbb70plfg.mp3

Notes

Notes 19/1

Composition (page 2)

• How is the names community defined? Symantic distinction - maybe revert back to 'other MS organizations'?
• CSC focused on direct customers, but with a small number of representatives of other groups/organizations bringing specific expertise to the group (e.g. SSAC, RSSAC). 
• Currently customers already review IANA reports and information and report back accordingly. No barriers to issues being raised or brought forward, but focus should be on customers and technical function. 
• CSC may not need to meet for more than once every year or every two years
• Functions of CSC should be narrowly focused
• 1 non-customer representative, possibly drawn from MRT (liaison that could also speak on behalf of broader non-customer base?)
• CSC would not be the new authorization function - would meet monthly to have a quick check of reports and if there are any issues, discuss how to resolve these (as currently already happens) by speaking directly to IANA. Only if issues are not resolved would these be escalated to MRT (no ability to interrupt / delay any IANA services). 
• Proposal - min of 2 ccTL registry reps/ min of 2 gTLD registry reps, with others able to opt in over time. 

How will the member seats on the CSC be allocated?

• By CWG or MRT? Or by registries?
• Registries (gTLD/ccTLD) should allocated registry seats.
• SSAC/RRSAC/MS seats - consider a similar model as used by SSAC? Consider applications based on skills/expertise including peer review. 
• Selection process driven by those that have seats on CSC including some form of selection / credentialing. 
• Observers should be allowed (e.g. mailing list publicly archived, meeting recordings made available)
• Should ccTLD registry representative seats be allocated by region? - up by each group (gTLD registies/ccTLD registries) to determine how many representatives are needed and whether any geographic diversity is required. 

Term length and limits

• Term limit could be aligned with contract cycle - e.g. if term is 5 years, minimum term should be 5 years. 

How will decisions be made?

• What would CSC be voting on? Possibly when to escalate something to MRT - but generally it would be expected to be rough consensus driven without any need for votes. 

Capture

• Is there anything that this group could do that is beyond its remit? Capture needs to be looked at on a case by case basis. CSC has oversight role, escalation and reporting - what would be there to be captured?

Site visits

• Are part of the current contract - should these be continued by CSC or MRT? Are these still needed?

Action Items:  None

Chat Transcript

Marika Konings:Welcome to the RFP3 meeting of 19 January 2015

  Bernard Turcotte - staff support:hello

  Milton Mueller:Greetings all

  Milton Mueller:Happy MLK day

  Greg Shatan:Hello, all.

  Allan MacGillivray:Hello everyone.

  Matthew Shears:evening from Frankfurt

  Milton Mueller:Matt, what are you doing there? ;-)

  Matthew Shears:keeping Avri and Robin company

  Fatima Cambronero:hello everyone

  Steve Crocker:Hello, everyone

  Milton Mueller:All ICANN all the time

  Fatima Cambronero:hello everyone

  Sivasubramanian M:Olivier, are you in frankfurt?

  Seun:Hi everyone

  Seun:I will only be available for the next 30mins... my apologies

  Marika Konings:Yes, everyone has scroll control

  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@Siva - no I am in Switzerland

  Alan Greenberg:Is the doc online or was it sent in e-mail?

  Grace Abuhamad:In google Docs I think

  Grace Abuhamad:I'll find you the link

  Stephanie Duchesneau (GNSO/RySG):+1 this seems inconsistent with my read as well

  Fatima Cambronero:Google Doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kEMsYy6ABffka7G1iONO7VzTRlD4UwB0n05UdV8pAjA/edit

  Grace Abuhamad:Thanks Faatima!!!

  Stephanie Duchesneau (GNSO/RySG):there was support for other technical experts but with a registry focus

  Fatima Cambronero:you're welcome :)

  Donna Austin, RySG:Agree with Milton.

  Matthew Shears:I thought they were going to be liaisons to their respective groups

  Elise Lindeberg GAC:Milton - agree, We want to focus om Multistakeholder in MRT

  Milton Mueller:Right, we wanted SSAC and RSSAC on there

  Elise Lindeberg GAC:I think we are blurring the lines between CSC and MRT

  Milton Mueller:RSSAC is in some sense a customer of IANA names

  Christopher Wilkinson (CW):Some of us doubt the need for CSC AND MRT.

  Paul Kane:Agree with Elise.  We need to keep the Customer Group - CUSTOMERS :-)

  Donna Austin, RySG:I recall a suggestion by Bernie and Robert during the weekend sessions that technical expertise was key, and Robert suggested an application process similar to the SSAC.

  Elise Lindeberg GAC:We need CSC for customers - and by that we need something else for Mulitstakeholder  - MRT

  Donna Austin, RySG:I really feel we're creating an overly bureacratic beast for what should be a reasonably systematic process as it relates to changes to the Rootzone and WHOIS database.

  Milton Mueller:agree, Donna

  Elise Lindeberg GAC:one seat  - maby..? my focus is to have ONE place for Multistakeholder to dive in 

  Alan Greenberg:Why do we need to have the same discussion over and over again. If the non-registries actually do the work, they are another set of eyes, and if they don't participate, it doesn't make a difference.

  Wanawit Ahkuputra GAC:+1 Elise

  Jonathan Robinson:My suggestion during the weekend sessions was to consider MRT as the place for multi-stakeholder and to then view the two in an integrated / wholistic fashion. My personal perspective still leans in that direction.

  Avri Doria:we need the et of eye making sure that the policy is properly implemented, even if the registries did not want it to be.

  Seun:+1 to paul

  Avri Doria:maybe it is becasue i am sitting in an accountabilty mtg, but it seems to me an accountabilty factor to have a full set of eyes.

  Matthew Shears:how can it be ad hoc if it has a clear and defined responsibility of reviewing operator performance, etc.

  Milton Mueller:Alan, the point is not to proliferate duplicative bureaucracy.

  Milton Mueller:Avri: MRT can do that

  Elise Lindeberg GAC:CSC must be standing - its important to have some procedures and framework around IANA performance review. How often they meet is something else

  Avri Doria:Milton, I do not beleive it can without a set of eye being in the CSC.

  Milton Mueller:Registries are not homogenous in their interests

  Alan Greenberg:No discussion of MRT has ever assigned policy monitoring to MRT.\

  Donna Austin, RySG:@Alan, it's not so much the pandering, but when it becomes interference in operationa issues, it becomes a problem.

  Steve Crocker:Avri, what pollicies are you referring to?  The IANA function is not the place for recourse about the value-laden judgments inovlved delegation and redelegation.

  Avri Doria:yet they do have a common point of view, even with variants.. someone with the policy/implementation skills needs to keep watch..

  Alan Greenberg:@Greg, then set time constraints. Rys will have majority to win.

  Avri Doria:yes, the fear of mucking up the works, is the light of day.

  Avri Doria:Experts iinstead of multstakeholder is the compromise.

  Alan Greenberg:Integrate in a holistic fashion.  Eaxactly what does that mean????????????????????

  Avri Doria:i have not heard so much use of holistic since my hippie days.

  Milton Mueller:its part of the ecosystem, Avri ;-)

  Elise Lindeberg GAC:What we discussed on the weekend was good communication between CSC and MRT - not to mix them up

  Paul Kane:https://www.iana.org/performance/root-audit

  Milton Mueller:a holistic groovy ecosystem

  Paul Kane:Performance short fall is NOT acceptable

  Greg Shatan:@Paul -- absolutely not., and that is what CSC is there to deal with on the front lines.

  Avri Doria:I am looking for people who are experts at understanding policy/implementaiton - there are indeed technical people that do policy.

  Paul Kane:IANA is very responsive to our technical needs

  Matthew Shears:seems to me we have had this very discussion a few times already

  Milton Mueller:really

  Avri Doria:and i am looking for 1 or 2 people, not bunches mucking about.

  Alan Greenberg:Set rules that reviews need to be in within some deadline, have more Rys that peasants so that they can be overrulled.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (ALAC-AP Region):YES Really

  Milton Mueller:lets agree on one

  Alan Greenberg:I'm glad that we have now gotten down to just the GNSO and eliminated the rabble.

  Milton Mueller:we're taking a holistic view....

  Paul Kane:ok - small group of 1 is fine :-)

  Elise Lindeberg GAC:This one person - a liason ?

  Milton Mueller:Just rabbling your cage, Alan

  Paul Kane:Milton :-)  Holistic :-)

  Elise Lindeberg GAC:Liason from the MRT, that is ..?

  Milton Mueller:reasonable? ALAC? rarely do those things occur in the same phrase

  Milton Mueller:Idea of liaison from MRT makes sense, Elise

  Alan Greenberg:I'm quite sure the GNSO (non-Ry) and GAC will be happy to have the ALAC represent them. A ssign that we have been accepted at last.

  Matthew Shears:Elise - makes sense

  Matthew Shears:in addition to the RSSAC and SSAC

  Avri Doria:whenever i see a group of people working so hard to keep others out, i get curious, and concerend.

  Milton Mueller:whenever i see people clamoring to get into something they don't quite belong in, i feel the same way

  Greg Shatan:Avri and Milton may both be right....

  Milton Mueller:If there were no MRT, I would understand these concerns. But there will be a MRT. And it will have more authority over who is the IANA functions contractor than CSC

  Matthew Shears:is the CSC open?  can others participate/observe?

  Milton Mueller:yes

  Milton Mueller:well, observe at least

  Alan Greenberg:Last I heard we would only let sonmeone on CSC if they passed the (rigorous) test!

  Matthew Shears:if we limit the "members" then transparency and open meetings are key

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (ALAC-AP Region):agre e Donna we are not looking at a "gatekeeper' function

  Milton Mueller:Matt: key to what?

  Alan Greenberg:I don't think anyone said anything about the CSC doing

  Milton Mueller:accurate and secure root zone changes?

  Alan Greenberg:approvals"!

  Paul Kane:Matthew +1 - reports are open for ALL to review

  Donna Austin, RySG:@Greg--if that is the case then there should be no way that the CSC could impact real time operational changes.

  Donna Austin, RySG:Which would make me happy.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (ALAC-AP Region):agree @Donna

  Alan Greenberg:@Donna, I thought we determined long ago that it was just review and complain (if necessary)

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (ALAC-AP Region):yup @Alan that is my recall also

  Donna Austin, RySG:@Alan--there are a number of things I thought we had determined long ago, but we continue to discuss them. so I just wanted to make the point explicitly.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (ALAC-AP Region):tell me / us aboitbit @donna :-)

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (ALAC-AP Region):should read about it

  Alan Greenberg:@Donna, that seems to be our style.

  Alan Greenberg:I did not hear convergence around one rep from the rest of the MS world.

  Avri Doria:Dont registries get as many as they want?

  Elise Lindeberg GAC:Dona and Alan - I agree that we are discussing things that was determined one the "working weekend"

  Matthew Shears:If the CSC is not the authorization function what is?

  Alan Greenberg:@Matthew, a detail we haven't gotten to.

  Paul Kane:Yes - Donna.  We monitor occasionally

  Milton Mueller:good idea Donna

  Milton Mueller:people who want to push functions on CSC should put them in MRT

  Alan Greenberg:@Donna, who has proposed adding responsibility/function for the CSC?

  Donna Austin, RySG:@Alan--Avri has mentioned it in the context of whether an MRT is required.

  Graeme Bunton - RrSG:I'm here

  Avri Doria:i mentionaed that there those who wanted to eliminate MRT and we could not assume it existence. 

  Graeme Bunton - RrSG:I suspect Rrs might grumble about it

  Alan Greenberg:@Donna, sorry, yes, But I don't recall a lot of support...

  Graeme Bunton - RrSG:And i'll take that back to them

  Graeme Bunton - RrSG:but I think in the spirit of keeping it lean, we can make that work

  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Re: whether there should be an MRT I sense we should really go back to the survey results. We are just repeating the points which people answering the survey have made

  Elise Lindeberg GAC:CSC lean, MRT also lean - We have discussed this

  Milton Mueller:yes

  Seun:@Olivier what will we have been discussing to fill this time ;-)

  Paul Kane:There are many ccTLDs are NOT members of the ccNSO

  Seun:bye for now

  Donna Austin, RySG:@ Paul the same is becoming the same for gTLD registries

  Paul Kane:Each Registry community can run processes for selection

  Paul Kane:Olivier +1

  Alan Greenberg:Us micromanage? No, that would never happen.

  Stephanie Duchesneau (GNSO/RySG):agree that ccs and g's should be designing their own processes

  Eduardo Diaz - (ALAC):So, What was decided about the final compositionn of the CSC? Did I miss that?

  Bernard Turcotte - staff support:From the working weekend we talked about a two stage process to ensure there are valid candidates

  Avri Doria:is 1 multistakehjolder seat an oxymoron?

  Bernard Turcotte - staff support:Home groups naminate and some other independent group validates

  Bernard Turcotte - staff support:CLO suggested the Nominating committee in an ICANN Internal solution

  Alan Greenberg:1 miltistakeholder seat certainly will send a message to those who oppose the multistakeholder concept.

  Milton Mueller:nonsense

  Matthew Shears:So to understand where we are - we have a minimum of 2 seats for the gtlds and 2 for the cctlds, one for the RSSAC, the SSAC and the MRT liaison?  Can we confirm where we are on seats and composition?

  Alan Greenberg:See avri's message above.

  Milton Mueller:it's the CSC. There is a MRT too, remember? The MRT's first inital stands for....what?

  jaap akkerhuis (ssac):Note that SSAC has no operational role in ICANN processes so one wonder whether a permanen ole will be accepted by SSAC

  Avri Doria:Milton: maybe

  Milton Mueller:An AC is by definition an operational role. the role is to provide advice

  Donna Austin, RySG:@Jaap - I think Martin said some time ago said that this task would be largely boring -- so that should see considerable drop off over time.

  Milton Mueller:M for Maybe. Good one, Avri

  Milton Mueller:Dial M for Multistakeholder

  Paul Kane:I think we should not prescribe how/when CSC reps meet

  Donna Austin, RySG:agree with Paul, this is becoming far too prescriptive and seems to go beyond what is reasonable.

  jaap akkerhuis (ssac):Boring is a silly argument whrne talking about fulfilment of futies.

  jaap akkerhuis (ssac):duties

  Donna Austin, RySG:apologies, I didn't mean to be disrespectful, I was just trying to make a point that this should not be overly complicated and we should build on the experience of the ccs and to some extent NTIA in their management of performance against SLAs.

  Paul Kane:May I suggest that we are getting VERY bogged down in prescriptive details.  People frequently change jobs within 5 years!

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (ALAC-AP Region):huge presumption on the contract cycle Milton

  Graeme Bunton - RrSG:Avg length of an employees tenure in IT is less than 24 months, so five is pushing it

  Paul Kane:Performance facts speak for themselves. 

  Milton Mueller:Avg length of ICANN people seems to be 15 years. ;-)

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (ALAC-AP Region):agree @donna

  maarten Simon, SIDN:+1 @donna

  Milton Mueller:agree w CLO agreeing with Donna

  Bernard Turcotte - staff support:+1 Donna

  Paul Kane:NO - secretariat needed.  Starting to get top heavy

  Paul Kane:ok but need to be light weight

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (ALAC-AP Region):hell yes @paul way too so...

  Donna Austin, RySG:I can't really envisage a situation where travel would be required.

  Matthew Shears:+ 1 Donna  - although check ins at ICANN meetings might be useful

  Matthew Shears:Meet once a month is fine - if performance is fine no need for a meeting

  Avri Doria:seems already captued by registries.

  Avri Doria:who else is there to capture it.

  Paul Kane:review of reports ...... impacted parties .... hmmmm

  Milton Mueller:right, it's like saying the NCSG has been captured by noncommercial interests

  Donna Austin, RySG:I also expect that IANA sessions will continue at ICANN meetings and regional ccTLDs meetings, which will be part of the monitoring of IANA performance as a whole. IIt iss expected that the RySG will start do  the same moving forward.

  Alan Greenberg:@Avri, I tried and failed!

  Donna Austin, RySG:not captured, just managed.

  Milton Mueller:CSC should be "captured" by IANA customers

  Elise Lindeberg GAC:capture for CSC....?:)

  Alan Greenberg:Perhaps we need to talk about capture of the CWG.

  Avri Doria:i generally do not beleive in capture.  but if there is a notion of capture it is difficult to figure out who could when only one stakeholder group corntols something..

  Alan Greenberg:Do we need <JOKE ON> and <JOKE OFF> buttons on adobe connect?

  Bernard Turcotte - staff support:If the CSC sets the SLAs then we could imagine a scenario where a captured CSC would create unrealistic SLAs?

  Milton Mueller:did we lose sound?

  Donna Austin, RySG:have we lost sound or just me?

  Matthew Shears:hello?

  Bernard Turcotte - staff support:If that is even anywhere near a realistic possibility

  Alan Greenberg:See my message that just scolled off the screen!

  Alan Greenberg:scrolled

  Desiree Miloshevic:Can everyone hear? Lost audio here

  Alan Greenberg:I suggest that the CSC conduct site visits on site.

  Bernard Turcotte - staff support:audio good here

  Paul Kane:Site visits are not needed.  it either works or doesn't

  Donna Austin, RySG:Representative or, does not need to be the whole.

  Paul Kane:If it does not work - then IANA contractor needs to be replaced

  Bernard Turcotte - staff support:+1 Donna

  Matthew Shears:why were they undertaken then?

  Avri Doria:there was separation?  in the current arrangement?  I know it was requried, but i did not notice that it ever actually occured.

  Paul Kane:+1 Donna

  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:I feel site visits are useful in order to resolve anything that can be resolved in a F2F meeting. Replacing the contractor is the last step but there should be other steps before reaching this.

  Mary Uduma:@ Donna What of the Registries that do not attend ICANN meetings?

  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Donna's suggestion of having this at an ICANN meeting makes sense

  Paul Kane:+1 Mary - there are MANY ccTLDs that do not attend ICANN meetings

  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:this is a CSC site visit, not a huge number of Registries

  Donna Austin, RySG:IANA has in the past also attended regional ccTLD meetings.

  Paul Kane:IANA staff do attend regional meetings and give briefings regionally

  Matthew Shears:+ 1 Olivier

  Milton Mueller:let's adjourn!

  Matthew Shears:Site visits and being on hand at ICANN meetings are two different things

  Bernard Turcotte - staff support:+1

  Paul Kane:Happy to end this call.  When will MRT call be discussed

  Avri Doria:this meeting will drive me to drink. ass soon as it ends.

  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@Matthew: but a meeting between the CSC & IANA Staff at an ICANN meeting would probably work as a site visit

  Milton Mueller:you mean continue drinking?

  Milton Mueller:;-)

  jaap akkerhuis (ssac):Having a beer right ow ...

  Milton Mueller:I would like to start

  Avri Doria:i am drinking a coke.  industrious attenidn gthis very depressing meeting.

  Paul Kane:Thanks all ...

  Bernard Turcotte - staff support:bye

  Mary Uduma:Thnaks All and bye

  Matthew Shears:thanks Greg!

  jaap akkerhuis (ssac):By all

  Graeme Bunton - RrSG:thanks all

  Allan MacGillivray:Night all

  Greg Shatan:Thank you all and good bye.

  Greg Shatan:And prosit where appropriate.