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CCWG ACCT Meeting #95 (21 June @ 19:00 UTC)

CCWG ACCT Meeting #95 (21 June @ 19:00 UTC)

Owned by Brenda Brewer
Last updated: Jun 23, 2016

Attendees: 

Members:   Alan Greenberg, Athina Fragkouli, Becky Burr, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, Fiona Asonga, James Bladel, Jordan Carter, Jorge Villa, Julie Hammer, Leon Sanchez, Mathieu Weill, Olga Cavalli, Pär Brumark, Robin Gross, Roelof Meijer, Samantha Eisner, Sebastien Bachollet, Steve DelBianco, Thomas Rickert, Tijani Ben Jemaa   (20)

Participants:  Aarti Bhavana, Alain Bidron, Anne Aikman Scalese, Antonio Medina, Avri Doria, Barrack Otieno, Brett Schaefer, Christopher Wilkinson, David Maher, David McAuley, Edward Morris, Erika Mann, Finn Petersen, Greg Shatan, James Gannon, Jorge Cancio, Kavouss Arasteh, Keith Drazek, Mark Carvell, Markus Kummer, Mary Uduma, Niels ten Oever, Phil Buckingham, Philip Corwin, Rafael Perez Galindo, Sabine Meyer, Seun Ojedeji, Simon Jansson, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy, Stephen Deerkake, Tatiana Tropina, Tom Dale   (32)

Guests:  Asha Hemrajani, Elizabeth Andrews, Janet Shih Hajek, John Poole, Taylor Bentley

Staff:  Alice Jansen, Bernie Turcotte, Berry Cobb, Brenda Brewer, Grace Abhuhamad, Hillary Jett, Karen Mulberry, Marika Konings, Theresa Swinehart, Trang Nguyen, Yuko Green

Apologies:  Pedro Ivo Ferrraz da Silva, Matogoro Jabhera, Alberto Soto

**Please let Brenda know if your name has been left off the list (attendees or apologies).**

Transcript

Recording

Agenda

  1. Welcome, roll call, SOI (5min)
  2. Articles of Incorporation  (25 minutes) 
  3. Budget Update (25 Minutes) 
  4. Staff draft papers on WS2 Topics (15 minutes)
  5. Helsinki Agenda and Status of Lightning Talks/Expressions of Interest (45 minutes)
  6. AOB (5 minutes)
  7. Closing

Notes

 1.  Welcome, roll call, SOI (5min)

  • No one on audio only. Roll call will be taken through virtual meeting room.
  • Congrats to all for NTIA milestone (June 9th).

2. Articles of Incorporation  (25 minutes) TRickert

  • Steve DelBianco to present
  • Do the co-chairs intend to submit a comment to the ICANN public consultation on the Articles of Inc?
  • TR - to be consistent we should do the same as we did for the Bylaws.
  • SDB - end of consultation should be 6 July.
  • Going through the side by side comparison document (will only note issues)
  • CWilkinson - Applicable Local Law - would be helpful to have legal advice as to what that means in practice (originally meant that ICANN would respect European law on privacy - which has been an ongoing issue with ICANN over the years). SDB this sounds like it is an ongoing process - possibly this would be relevant under the WS2 item under jurisdiction.
  • David McAuley (RySG): Steve, IMO, the CCWG proposal did not mean to undo the current Article’s use of “applicable” as relating to both international conventions and local law in new section 3 – I think we should retain that.TR we should ask the lawyers about the impact of these changes.
  • KArasteh - Should not use applicable law - we should spell out exactly what we mean. Future is also an issue. TR let us hear from the lawyers before deciding if this in an issue.
  • Greg Shatan: Jorge, in my experience "from time to time" is typically used in legal documents (contracts, bylaws, articles) when something can happen at any time (rather than at regular periods).
  • Becky Burr: Sorry - "applicable law" has a very clear meaning in a legal document, and this is a legal document.
  • SDB - "shall" vs "May" seems to be an issue which we should ask legal. GShattan - if we were to make a change we would be adding a new requirement to the articles - currently there is no such requirement. This is beyond our recommendations. "time to time" is not colloquial and is used in many legal documents. SDB Greg makes the argument for "may".
  • BSchaeffer - when it is determined we need to use a bottom up multi stakeholder process to determine it.
  • Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: our report said it would be determined in a bottom-up manner.  NOT that it "may",, which also means  "may NOT" - have the same old debate all over again!
  • Becky Burr: I don't think this permits the global public interest to be determined unilaterally by ICANN without bottom up multi-stakeholder process
  • Avri Doria: we need something that says it outright, not something where some one can argue that maybe it does and maybe it doesn't
  • Avri Doria: Becky it needs to be stated explicitly.  this was one of the decisions within the CCWG.
  • SEisner - "shall vs may" issue of sentence constriction. Will have a look at this. SDB MAY or SHALL is not needed? SEisner could be a solution.
  • (Action Item) TR - it would be great if SE could get back to the list on this. what about applicable law?
  • SEisner - proposed language makes it a cleaner read given there are no clear treaties which apply to ICANN. Kavouss Arasteh: aGREE WITH EXPLANATIONS BEING PROVIDED. wE SHOULD NOT PUT APPLICABLE BEFORE INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION AS WE THEN HAVE TO FIND OUT WHICH INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION WOULD BE APPLICABle.SEisner - new wording is simply cleaner but does not change the meaning. On Further vs. Future - there is little distinction between the words - if there are significant concerns it could be changed back.
  • Kavouss Arasteh: rETAIN FURTHER AS IT IS AND PLS DO NOT PUT APPLICABLE BEFORER INTERNATUIONA
  • Brett Schaefer: In the new Article 2, I also suggest replacing “organized” with “incorporated” in the second sentence and adding an additional sentence affirming the current location of the headquarters of ICANN. These clarifications provide greater certainty regarding ICANN’s legal jurisdiction and ensure that future changes of jurisdiction are not taken lightly. These changes to Article 2 would not preclude a change of jurisdiction of incorporation or relocation of ICANN’s headquarters if Work Stream 2 so decides. The more explicit wording, however, would ensure that these changes will be subject to due scrutiny by requiring approval of the Empowered Community under the new bylaws because they would require an amendment to the Articles of Incorporation.
  • (Action Item) TR - for the time being I would suggest we see the written contributions from Sam Eisner to the list before deciding if there is a need for change.
  • Brett Schaefer: Could we get an explanation for the deletion of the old Article 5(e)? SDB please read the explanation at the bottom of the page - given here is no legal requirement it is being proposed to be removed. BSchaeffer - why was it there in the first place since 1998? SEisner - At the point in time when ICANN was incorporated - it was unclear if ICANN was public charity - but it is now. So some of this language was drafted awaiting the determination of the IRS as to the final status of ICANN (Foundation vs Charity). BSchaeffer - why not replace this provision with equivalent protections for what ICANN is. SEisner - ICANN being incorporated the laws of the IRS must apply to ICANN.
  • TR - Sam can you circle back with Rosemary and post something to the group on this - and if there is no problem with keeping it maybe you could consider this. 
  • Brett Schaefer: I would also point out that the CCWG did not request this change.
  • Kavouss Arasteh: We should have strong and valid reason to delete it
  • Kavouss Arasteh: In 5. I suggest to keep it for the good explanation which enshrined in the provisions.
  • TR - let us not take a decision today if we are going to file comments to the public consultation. Let us wait to the papers from SEisner and see how this meets our need for explanations;

   3. Budget Update (25 Minutes) MWeill

  • KArasteh - is this consistent with WS1 - MWeill - yes.
  • No other comment or questions.
  • Action Item - Forward budget to Chartering Organizations for review.

   4.  Staff draft papers on WS2 Topics (15 minutes) TRickert

  • GAbuhamad - presentation of the document formats. Working on getting these ready for Helsinki or immediately after but we have to coordinate with a number of other internal groups that are relevant to those topics (such as ATRT reviews etc.). If you have any suggestions, please send them directly to me.
  • KArasteh - should be a section OUTCOME. GAbuhamad these are the introduction papers to the sub-groups and the results of the sub-group work is the OUTCOME and is up to the sub-group.
  • TR - This is just to get things going.
  • BSchaeffer - when will these be distributed? GAbuhamad - trying to get them done for the meeting but not before. some may be after.
  • AGreenberg – would be great to have those that are ready distributed before we travel to Helsinki to read on the plane. TR – we will try to do this for those that are ready.

   5.      Helsinki Agenda and Status of Lightning - MWeill

  • Talks/Expressions of Interest (45 minutes) MW
  • Maximum of 3 persons per topic not to overburden any one topic.
  • Please sign-up to speak on a topic - we want diversity.
  • Review of expressions of interest in the slide deck.
  • Anne Aikman-Scalese:   Will there be any discussion in Helsinki as to how to train the community in the procedural aspects of the Empowered Community?  (Thisi essentially an implementation question I guess.)  Do we need an Empowered Community Procedure Manual?
  • KArasteh - Should allocate time so we can deal with the subjects properly.
  • MW - Presentation of the agenda in the slide deck.
  • Samantha Eisner: A point of clarification - the item on Standards for Board Conduct seems to be mislabeled.  This item is supposed to be the identification of standards of good conduct for community members in Board removal discussions, to allow the protections of indemnification to be provided
  • MWeill - this will be important.
  • Kavouss Arasteh: Please extend the allocated time for the second lightning in the afternoon to be at least 90 minutest
  • GShattan - will we know in advance which topics will appear in which lighting talks?
  • MWeill - will do our best on this but it may be short notice.

   6.  AOB (5 minutes) LSanchez

  • LSanchez - Any AOB? – None.

   7.  Adjourned.

Action Items

  • Action Item TR - it would be great if SE could get back to the list on this. what about applicable law?
  • Action Item TR - for the time being I would suggest we see the written contributions from Sam Eisner to the list before deciding if there is a need for chang
  • Action Item - Forward budget to Chartering Organizations for review.

Documents

AC Chat

  Brenda Brewer: (6/21/2016 13:40) Good day all and welcome to the CCWG Accountability Meeting #95 on 21 June at 19:00 UTC!

  Niels ten Oever: (13:50) Hi all

  Kavouss Arasteh: (13:51) Hi Bret

  Kavouss Arasteh: (13:51) Are we colleagues or Friends?

  Kavouss Arasteh: (13:51) Brett .sorry

  Kavouss Arasteh: (13:52) Good day Brenda

  Kavouss Arasteh: (13:52) hI ALL

  Kavouss Arasteh: (13:52) fIRTST DAY OF SUMMER. tHE LOGEST DAY OF THE YEAR

  Jordan Carter (.nz, ccNSO): (13:55) hi everyone

  Mary Uduma: (13:55) Hello All

  Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (13:56) hello all

  Pär Brumark (GAC Niue): (13:56) Hi everyone!

  Kavouss Arasteh: (13:56) iT IS A NICE AND SUNNY DAY IN gENEVA

  Tom Dale (ACIG GAC Secretariat): (13:56) Hello all. Winter Solstice here in Australia.

  Kavouss Arasteh: (13:57) Jordan, sorry for upper case

  Asha Hemrajani: (13:58) Hello all

  Erika Mann: (13:58) Hi from Brussels

  Kavouss Arasteh: (13:58) Hi asha, How are you?

  Jordan Carter (.nz, ccNSO): (13:58) joining from Rome today

  Asha Hemrajani: (13:58) Hello Kavouss, I am good. How are you doing?

  jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (13:59) hi all

  Sabine Meyer: (13:59) hello everyone

  Kavouss Arasteh: (13:59) Jordan, are you doing in Rome as Romans do?

  Tatiana Tropina: (13:59) Hi all!

  Jordan Carter (.nz, ccNSO): (13:59) I don't know - I walked around the Forum and ate some carbonara today... does that count? :)

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (14:00) Hello everyone !

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair ALAC): (14:00) hello everyone

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair ALAC): (14:00) we will be beginning shortly

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:00) Hola Lean

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:00) Hi all!

  CW: (14:00) Hello. Joining the call. CW

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:00) aHA RED WRITING LADY

  Keith Drazek: (14:02) Hello all

  Markus Kummer: (14:02) Hi everyone

  Athina Fragkouli (ASO): (14:02) hello all!

  Becky Burr: (14:02) hello all

  Greg Shatan: (14:02) Hello everybody.

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:03) Keith, Hi , pls note that those colours( red and magenta ) are reserved for non commnercial  part of the house

  Sabine Meyer: (14:03) this colour scheme is confusing, Keith and Greg :)

  Avri Doria: (14:03) there could be new particpants at any time who haven't filed.

  Greg Shatan: (14:04) I'm using brown today because Keith took red first.

  James Gannon: (14:04) Hi all

  Keith Drazek: (14:04) I'm going green

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:04) First comes ,first served

  Avri Doria: (14:04) i find i use brown no matter who else decides to use it.

  jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:04) Thanks to the lawyers for providing explanations to the changes to the AoI. We will need to review them in detail.

  James Gannon: (14:04) Pink and proud

  Becky Burr: (14:04) still trying to get in the call ...

  Avri Doria: (14:04) i am willing to share a color.

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:05) Pink and ....

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:05) Seeing pink makes me happy.  I'd be thrilled if we had a sea of pink in the stream...

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (14:05) @Becky : the keys have been changed because you are joining the Board ;-)

  Keith Drazek: (14:05) Is Thomas cutting out for others,  or is it  just me?

  James Gannon: (14:05) So in 2200 then yeh? When we finish

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (14:05) Fine here Keith

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair ALAC): (14:06) our works was even quoted as enabling trust in the ecosystem in one of the OECD meetings in Cancun

  Keith Drazek: (14:06) Ok thanks Mathieu, I'll rejoin if it keeps up.

  Sabine Meyer: (14:06) you're there Leon, right?

  James Gannon: (14:06) Thats awesome Leon

  Asha Hemrajani: (14:06) Lot of echo when Steve is speaking

  Jordan Carter (.nz, ccNSO): (14:06) can whoever is not speaking mute please/

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair ALAC): (14:06) Yes Sabine

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair ALAC): (14:06) Indeed Robin!

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:06) Steve, pls speak not so seriously

  Brett Schaefer: (14:06) Paul Rosensweig and I submitted a public comment on the AoI yesterday: https://forum.icann.org/lists/comments-draft-restated-articles-incorporation-27may16/pdf4q0D2pzsVp.pdf

  Asha Hemrajani: (14:06) yes better now, thanks Jordan

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair ALAC): (14:06) it felt really good to hear that!

  jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:08) I feel that is a good idea

  Brett Schaefer: (14:08) correct Steve

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (14:09) Web site says Jul 6

  Samantha Eisner: (14:09) It's the 6th.  no planned extensions

  jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:10) isn't "time to time" a bit colloquial?

  David McAuley (RySG): (14:10) Steve, IMO, the CCWG proposal did not mean to undo the current Article’s use of “applicable” as relating to both international conventions and local law in new section 3 – I think we should retain that.

  Brett Schaefer: (14:13) Jorge, agree. Also, I don't like "may" which implies that global public interest could also be determined by means not based on a bottom-up multistakeholder process. It shoudl be "shall".

  Stephen Deerhake (.as): (14:13) +1 to David's comment.

  Greg Shatan: (14:13) Jorge, in my experience "from time to time" is typically used in legal documents (contracts, bylaws, articles) when something can happen at any time (rather than at regular periods).

  jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:14) It seems we are in agreement, Brett. I'm not sure about "shall" but "time to time" and "may" is a bit too colloquial and open combination

  jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:15) Intuitively it seems to me that the language could be straightened and drafted in a more terse way

  David McAuley (RySG): (14:16) agreed Steve

  David McAuley (RySG): (14:17) Thank you Thomas

  Brett Schaefer: (14:18) Jorge, regardless of wording, it shoudl be clear that GPI is only determined through a bottom-up multistakeholder process.

  Becky Burr: (14:18) Sorry - "applicable law" has a very clear meaning in a legal document, and this is a legal document

  Greg Shatan: (14:18) My comment was on the "applicable" issue, which has now been covered for the moment.

  Pär Brumark (GAC Niue): (14:19) +1 Becky

  Greg Shatan: (14:19) Kavouss's question is answered in the right hand column.

  jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:19) Becky: could you please elaborate on its meaning?

  Becky Burr: (14:20) ICANN is clearly organized under California law, however it operates around the world and in any particular circumstance or dispute the law that is applicable is determined by looking at the context, relevant jurisdictional statutes, etc.

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:21) Our report also said GPI must be determined in a bottom-up manner - that needs to be clear in this document.

  Sabine Meyer: (14:21) If you replace "may" in this context with "shall" it might be read to compel the multistakeholder community to determine the GPI.

  CW: (14:21) Well, there are other sources of the public interest.

  Avri Doria: (14:21) agree with Robin, miss seeing that in this rework.

  Sabine Meyer: (14:21) (compel might not have been the right word, sorry)

  CW: (14:21) I prefer May.

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:22) Grec+1

  Olga Cavalli (GAC Argentina): (14:22) GAC is working in a document about Public Interest

  Sabine Meyer: (14:22) I tried to say what Greg just did.

  Becky Burr: (14:22) agree Greg and Sabine

  jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:22) thanks Greg

  Tatiana Tropina 2: (14:22) Good point Greg

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:22) our report said it would be determined in a bottom-up manner.  NOT that it "may",, which also means  "may NOT"

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:22) If we say shall ,it would strictly limited to MSHC .whereas if we say may, MSHC  AND OTHER ENTITY COULD INTERVENED

  Avri Doria: (14:23) the reference to bottomup needs to be in 3.

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:23) Agree with Avri.  To do otherwise, would deter from our report on how the GPI is determined.

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:23) detour, rather

  Greg Shatan: (14:24) Brett, I think that is what the language here says.

  Avri Doria: (14:24) i do not see this langauge saying that.

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:24) Agree with Brett - this needs to be crystal clear in the articles.  We can't have the same old debate all over again!

  Becky Burr: (14:25) I don't think this permits the global public interest to be determined unilaterally by ICANN without bottom up multistakeholder process

  Avri Doria: (14:25) we need something that says it outright, not something where some one can argue that maybe it does and maybe it doesn't

  Avri Doria: (14:25) Becky it needs to be stated explicitly.  this was one of the decsions within the CCWG.

  jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:26) it would be useful to have the parallel Bylaws language at hand

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:26) Right, Avri.  This is a die-in-a-ditch issue (that was resolved months ago).

  Becky Burr: (14:26) Core Values say "as identified through the bottom-up multistakeholder policy development process"

  Becky Burr: (14:26) correct steve

  Becky Burr: (14:26) that's what the bylaws do

  jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:27) thanks Becky

  Avri Doria: (14:27) it was agreed that it go in the AoI

  CW: (14:28) But does that mean that ICANN gets the full mony of ALL international conventions?

  David McAuley (RySG): (14:28) Sam, are you saying "relevant" modifies international conventions also

  James Gannon: (14:29) CW I think thats where the 'reevant' part comes in as David said

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:29) aGREE WITH EXPLANATIONS BEING PROVIDED. wE SHOULD NOT PUT APPLICABLE BEFORE INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION AS WE THEN HAVE TO FIND OUT WHICH INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION WOULD BE APPLICABLéE

  jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:29) Kavouss has a point there

  David McAuley (RySG): (14:30) current bylaw says applicable international conventions - are we saying this change is for appearance not meaning?

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (14:31) Christopher, can you mute your line while not speaking please ?

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:31) rETAIN FURTHER AS IT IS AND PLS DO NOT PUT APPLICABLE BEFORER INTERNATUIONA

  Brett Schaefer: (14:32) In the new Article 2, I also suggest replacing “organized” with “incorporated” in the second sentence and adding an additional sentence affirming the current location of the headquarters of ICANN. These clarifications provide greater certainty regarding ICANN’s legal jurisdiction and ensure that future changes of jurisdiction are not taken lightly. These changes to Article 2 would not preclude a change of jurisdiction of incorporation or relocation of ICANN’s headquarters if Work Stream 2 so decides. The more explicit wording, however, would ensure that these changes will be subject to due scrutiny by requiring approval of the Empowered Community under the new bylaws because they would require an amendment to the Articles of Incorporation.

  Brett Schaefer: (14:34) Coul dwe get an explaination for the deletion of the old Article 5(e)?

  jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:37) wow - this is a really esoteric discussion (IRS...)

  Sabine Meyer: (14:38) I would guess that from a US point of view the IRS is anything but esoteric ;)

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:39) Steve, what is the harm to maintain e.?

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:39) It is a preventive and cautionary provisions that could help

  Brett Schaefer: (14:39) Samantha, ICANN is established for public chjaritable purposes in the AoI

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr  (CLO): (14:40) Understood Am  thanks  makes sense to me

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr  (CLO): (14:40) Am=Sam ;-(

  Becky Burr: (14:41) nothing to add to Sam's explanation

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:41) Brett+1

  Brett Schaefer: (14:42) Acting in conformity to law is a good thing yes?

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:42) Once again, it is no harm to keep it

  Brett Schaefer: (14:43) I would also point out that the CCWG did not request this change.

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:43) We should have strong and valid reason to delete it

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:44) In 5. I suggest to keep  it for the good explanation which enshrined in the provisions

  Sabine Meyer: (14:45) What about (former) art 6, Thomas? the deleted phrase includes the condition of members existing.

  Erika Mann: (14:48) Your breaking up Thomas

  James Gannon: (14:51) Thats fantastic news Bernie, thanks

  jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:51) This slide: transcriptions, staff support for drafting seems like a significant improvement :-)

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:52) Yes, much appreciated edits to the original proposal.

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:53) Is the 20 equal to those received travel support in CCWG WS1?

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:53) sAME TYPE ,YES

  Jordan Carter (.nz, ccNSO): (14:53) Good budget news, thanks Bernie

  Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (14:54) thanks

  Greg Shatan: (14:54) I think "which" should be "whom" in the second bullet point.

  Asha Hemrajani: (14:55) good point Greg

  Sabine Meyer: (14:55) agreed, Greg

  Greg Shatan: (14:55) Being monolingual (a/k/a American) has to have some advantages.... :-)

  Asha Hemrajani: (14:56) @Greg :-)

  Greg Shatan: (14:56) Mais je suis Canadien aussi....

  Sabine Meyer: (14:57) I feel another diversity lightning talk materialising....

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (14:58) I'll invite you to the next Francophonie meeting Greg !

  Brett Schaefer: (14:58) When will these be distributed? I assume prior to Sunday?

  Asha Hemrajani: (14:58) Mathieu would be ideal to do that lightning talk

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (14:58) Thanks Grace, also worth including NCSG paper on Transparency

  James Gannon: (14:58) Je suis un francophone aussi!

  Asha Hemrajani: (14:58) @Mathieu moi aussi

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (14:59) :-D

  James Gannon: (14:59) WS2 en francais?

  Asha Hemrajani: (14:59) Great draft - good example to follow for the other papers for WS2

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair ALAC): (15:00) oui, WS2 en francais

  jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (15:00) on peut choisir le français comme langue de travail

  James Gannon: (15:00) =)

  Asha Hemrajani: (15:00) @James, Leon pourquoi pas?

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (15:00) Accepté !!!!

  Sabine Meyer: (15:00) je propose l'allemand comme langue de travail en lieu de francais...

  James Gannon: (15:00) bon point

  Jordan Carter (.nz, ccNSO): (15:00) non Sabine, c'est pas possible

  Sabine Meyer: (15:01) et pourquoi pas, Jordan?

  jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (15:01) mais, sans faire un doctorat en droit

  Jordan Carter (.nz, ccNSO): (15:01) Je ne comprends pas ;)

  Sabine Meyer: (15:01) touché :D

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:01) We could add the following as the fourth section:

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:01) Report, Recommendation

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (15:02) Kavouss, we have discussed last time a template for WS2 outcome documents which includes this, as you suggest

  Jordan Carter (.nz, ccNSO): (15:02) Am looking forward to seeing how remote participation works on Sunday

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:02) We need to explicitly mention the output

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (15:02) Agreed.

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (15:02) Me too, Jordan.  I'll be participating remotely.

  Grace Abuhamad: (15:03) We don't think that these will be included in the report Kavouss. These are just starter paper to get the work going.

  Mark Carvell - UK GAC: (15:04) These issue papers will be very useful to get everyone to same level - many thanks.

  Grace Abuhamad: (15:04) To be more clear (and honest): I don't expect that we will be able to deliver any papers before Helsinki

  jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (15:05) we trust you can, Grace :P

  David McAuley (RySG): (15:05) good looking documents Grace, thanks

  Grace Abuhamad: (15:05) Haha -- keep low expectations please @Jorge

  Jordan Carter (.nz, ccNSO): (15:05) Are slots available for remote participants?

  Brett Schaefer: (15:05) Diversity so popular lightning will strike twice?

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr  (CLO): (15:06) Yes Grace these will make a great foundation for each topic

  James Gannon: (15:06) Thre times Brett!

  jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (15:06) there was something from afnic on diversity, right? :D

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr  (CLO): (15:06) Note I am thee only non French non male taling therre James ;-)

  Avri Doria: (15:06) diverse views on diversity

  Greg Shatan: (15:06) CLO thank you for adding diversity.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr  (CLO): (15:07) talking

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr  (CLO): (15:07) :-)

  Edward Morris: (15:07) Thanks for mentioning the paper Mathieu. I have already signed up.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr  (CLO): (15:07) I try

  jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (15:07) they are also humans - these co-chairs - let them speak their hearts

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr  (CLO): (15:07) Yes Ed  interesting Reading  thk

  Sabine Meyer: (15:07) During Euro 2016? Not the best idea, Jorge ;)

  Grace Abuhamad: (15:07) You can sign up to give a talk here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qWnvDG_qCr6lLvXRo_e3NYp6DalnBokHP5wAbAXlw5U/edit?usp=sharing

  jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (15:08) but Euro16 is anyway a foregone story

  Greg Shatan: (15:08) One Direction is coming to the CCWG meeting?!  So exciting.

  Sabine Meyer: (15:08) (With respect to León I will make no mention of the Copa America)

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (15:08) Heart ? That's not a requirement for co chairs

  Avri Doria: (15:08) i am assuming each of us should only volunteer for one such talk.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr  (CLO): (15:08) Sabine :-)

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair ALAC): (15:08) LOL Sabine!

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair ALAC): (15:08) Thanks for not mentioning the issue :P

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr  (CLO): (15:08) I assumed so Avri... thugh  we should be able to step up on the day if there is a shortfall

  James Gannon: (15:09) Hmm I guess Ill sign up for board standards, keep all our friendly board members in check =)

  Anne Aikman-Scalese: (15:09)   Will there be any discussion in Helsinki as to how to train the community in the procedural aspects of the Empowered Community?  (Thisi essentially an implementation question I guess.)  Do we need an Empowered Community Procedure Manual?

  Greg Shatan: (15:09) Chile's new favorite band: http://www.avengedsevenfold.com/

  Sabine Meyer: (15:09) OUCH Greg

  Avri Doria: (15:10) looking forward to this evening's copa semi-final

  Greg Shatan: (15:11) Will we know which topics are being covered when?  Not all participants may want to spend the day, if they are concenttrating on certain WS2 topics.

  Samantha Eisner: (15:11) A point of clarification - the item on Standards for Board Conduct seems to be mislabeled.  This item is supposed to be the identificaiton of standards of good conduct for community members in Board removal discussions, to allow the protections of indemnification to be provided

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair ALAC): (15:11) @Greg we're building a wall on Chile

  James Gannon: (15:12) Really?

  Greg Shatan: (15:12) @Leon, you'll be walled in.

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair ALAC): (15:12) 7 meters high

  Jordan Carter (.nz, ccNSO): (15:12) Sam, no, that's not quite what it is meant to be

  James Gannon: (15:12) Oh thats a totally differnt topic to what many of us thought

  Sabine Meyer: (15:12) as long as the Chileans pay for it...

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:12) Please entexd the allocated time for the second lightning in the afternoon to be at least 90 minutest

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair ALAC): (15:12) of course they'll pay for it Sabine

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:13) Please kindly do not put jurisdiction and Human Rights in one block

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair ALAC): (15:14) Survivors of block one may joing block two

  Samantha Eisner: (15:14) @James, it's from Annex 4, Paragraph 54 of the CCWG Proposal

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:14) Or for these two items provide two opportunities to discuss

  Sebastien: (15:15) Euro 2016

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (15:15) Btw, please be aware France is playing during our meeting on Sunday. My attention may be wandering from time to time... ;-)

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr  (CLO): (15:16) Great  ... Thans everyone... sake travels to anyone heading to Helsinki

  Mary Uduma: (15:16) Bye All

  Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (15:16) bye all

  Avri Doria: (15:16) bye

  David McAuley (RySG): (15:16) Thanks all, good bye

  Pär Brumark (GAC Niue): (15:16) Thx All!

  James Gannon: (15:16) @Sam If its just the indepmiification issue can I suggest you send a quick email to the list, would assuage some of us who were worried about the topic as it was written =)

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr  (CLO): (15:16) Bye

  SivasubramanianM: (15:16) bye everyone

  Sabine Meyer: (15:16) safe travels!

  Markus Kummer: (15:16) Tnaks and good-bye -- see many of you in Helsinki!

  jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (15:16) bye all!

  Niels ten Oever: (15:16) bye all

  jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): (15:16) safe travels

  Tatiana Tropina 3: (15:16) bye everyone!

  Athina Fragkouli (ASO): (15:16) thank you! bye all

  Niels ten Oever: (15:16) can't wait

  CW: (15:16) Thankyou B'ye

  Greg Shatan: (15:16) Au revoir!