CCWG ACCT Meeting #46 (30 July)

Attendees: 

Members:  Alan Greenberg, Alice Munyua, Becky Burr, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, Eberhard Lisse, Fiona Asonga, Izumi Okutani, James Bladel, Jordan Carter, Jorge Villa, Julie Hammer, Leon Sanchez, Lyman Chapin, Mathieu Weill, Olga Cavalli, Pär Brumark, Robin Gross, Samantha Eisner, Sébastien Bachollet, Steve DelBianco, Suzanne Radell, Thomas Rickert, Tijani Ben Jemaa  (23)

Participants:  Andrew Harris, Avri Doria, Barrack Otieno, Carlos Raul, Chris Disspain, Christopher Wilkinson, Damien Coudeville, David McAuley, David Post, Finn Petersen, Gary Shatan, Jonathan Zuck, Jorge Cancio, Malcolm Hutty, Martin Boyle, Matthew Shears, Maura Gambassi, Paul Szyndler, Pedro Ivo Silva, Phil Buckingham, Sabine Meyer, Seun Ojedeji, Tom Dale, Tracy Hackshaw, Yasuichi Kitamura   (25)

Legal Counsel:  Holly Gregory, Ingril Mittermaier, Michael Clark, Nancy McGlamery, Rosemary Fei   (5)

Staff:  Adam Peake, Bernard Turcotte, Berry Cobb, Brenda Brewer, Grace Abuhamad, Hillary Jett, Kimberly Carlson, Laena Rahim, Marika Konings, Theresa Swinehart

Apologies:  Keith Drazek

**Please let Brenda know if your name has been left off the list (attendees or apologies).**

Transcript

• Transcript CCWG ACCT #46 am_30 July.doc
• Transcript CCWG ACCT #46 am_30 July.pdf

Recording

• The Adobe Connect recording is available here: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/p6khiqjw1v5/
• The audio recording is available here:  http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ccwg-acct-30jul15-en.mp3

Proposed Agenda

1. Opening remarks (roll call, SOI)

2. Minority statements

3. Review of remaining sections/documents

• Section 5B: Community Powers (intro)
• Section 5B.1: Budget
• Section 5B.2: Standard Bylaws
• Section 5B.3: Removal of Board Members (individuals)
• Section 5B.4: Recalling Board Members (entire Board)
• Section 5C: Diversity, Staff Accountability, and SO/AC Accountability 
• Section 6: Incorporation of AoC 
• Executive Summary
• Fulfillment of Requirements
• Section 1: Background
• Section 2: Accountability Mechanisms
• Section 7/8: Stress Tests
• Section 9: WS2
• Section 10: Implementation 

4. Update on human rights discussion per legal advice

5. Update on voting weights discussion per legal advice

6. Review of XPlane graphics

7. Procedural approach for calls today and for Public Comment

     A. Freeze starts on Friday 31 July at 18:00 UTC

     B. Publication on Monday 3 August

8. AOB

    A. Webinars on 4 & 7 August

    B. Call on 4 August cancelled (replaced by webinar)

9. Closing remarks

Documents

Notes

1. Opening remarks (roll call, SOI)

2. Minority statements

·  Minority statement is attached to the report in an appendix

·  Dissenting opinion is your diverging view on a section/part of the report

·  Statements are need in advance of the report publication. 

·You are welcome to submit statements/dissenting opinions at any time, but if you miss the deadline, we cannot include them in the published report for 2nd public comment

·  Extension until 12:00 UTC on Saturday (24h extension) 

·  Include pointer on Wiki for minority statements

3. Review of remaining sections/documents

Section 5B: Community Powers (intro)

·  Three key phases (petition, discussion, decision)

·  Any objections or comments on this section? No

Section 5B.1: Budget

·  Lot of changes from legal review. 

·  Any objections or comments on this section? No

Section 5B.2: Standard Bylaws

·  No major changes. 

·  Any objections or comments on this section? No

Section 5B.3: Removal of Board Members (individuals)

·  Any objections or comments on this section? Yes, Sebastien Bachollet

·Question: Do you think there should be the possibility of invoking the process only once per term? Ticks (Yes): Tijani + 14; Crosses (No): 6. 

·  ---> So, the group will proceed with once per term. 

Alan Greenberg: Revised Section 30 of Director Removal: For the seven directors appointed by one of the three SOs or by the At-Large Community, a process led by that organization or subdivision would decide on the director’s removal. Only the SO or AC that appointed the director could decide on that director’s removal. For the purposes of the following paragraph and sub-sections, SO means the SO or for the case of the GNSO, the GNSO House that has the Bylaw right to appointa Director.

Section 5B.4: Recalling Board Members (entire Board)

·Fine tune in implementation phase the process for recall when close to Board director's end of term (with 6 months or less)

·  Any objections or comments on this section? No

Section 5C: Diversity, Staff Accountability, and SO/AC Accountability 

·  Any objections or comments on this section? No

Section 6: Incorporation of AoC 

·  Any objections or comments on this section? No

Executive Summary

·  Action (staff): fix title for powers (5 not 6)

·  Action (staff):  change "culture of accountability" to "culture of transparency"

·  Do you think this structure of the executive summary is acceptable?

·Suggestion from Steve Del Bianco: suggest that we add one paragraph explaining our WS1/WS2 rationale.   This was on page 11 of our first draft proposal:  Work Stream 1 mechanisms were defined as those that, when in place or committed to, would provide the community with confidence that any accountability mechanism that would further enhance ICANN's accountability would be implemented if it had consensus support from the community, even if it were to encounter ICANN management resistance or if it were against the interest of ICANN as a corporate entity. 

·  Action (staff): add steve's paragraph 

·  Action (staff) Clarify that community powers are a recourse/ escalation path/ backstop

·  Action (staff) Fix IFR reference (if not in powers, in review)

Fulfillment of Requirements

·Any objections or comments on this section? yes, Avri Doria: do not accept the idea that we meet the considtion of require 4 for opennes.

Section 1: Background

·  Any objections or comments on this section? No

Section 2: Accountability Mechanisms

·  Any objections or comments on this section? Yes, Eberhard Lisse's wildcard

Section 7/8: Stress Tests

·  Any objections or comments on this section? Concerns from Argentina and Brazil on changing Bylaws

·  GAC is still looking into issue of Stress Test 18

·  Pages 28-27 are where we indicate new stress tests that were added based on PC#1

·  Action (Steve/Cheryl): note in section the concerns from GAC and ongoing discussions

Section 9: WS2

·  Any objections or comments on this section? No

Section 10: Implementation 

·  Any objections or comments on this section? Yes, Eberhard Lisse's wildcard 

4. Update on human rights discussion per legal advice

·  Agreement that there should be work/text on HR

·  The disagreement is about where to include/discuss: WS1 or WS2?

·Proposal text from Keith Drazek: Within its mission and in its operations, ICANN will be committed to respect the fundamental human rights of the exercise of free expression and the free flow of information.

·  Green ticks (yes, add Keith's text): 16

·  Red crosses (no): Tijani + 3 (so, 4)

Eberhard Lisse has a general wildcard objection for this call

Agenda for next call at 17:00 UTC

1. Opening Remarks

2. Update on voting weights discussion per legal advice

3. Review of previous call (11:00 UTC)

4. Review of XPlane graphics

5. Procedural approach for calls today and for Public Comment

     A. Freeze starts on Friday 31 July at 18:00 UTC

     B. Publication on Monday 3 August

6. AOB

    A. Webinars on 4 & 7 August

    B. Call on 4 August cancelled (replaced by webinar)

7. Closing remarks

Action Items

·  Action (staff): fix title for powers (5 not 6)

·  Action (staff):  change "culture of accountability" to "culture of transparency"

·  Action (staff): add steve's paragraph 

·  Action (staff) Clarify that community powers are a recourse/ escalation path/ backstop

·  Action (staff) Fix IFR reference (if not in powers, in review)

·  Action (Steve/Cheryl): note in section the concerns from GAC and ongoing discussions

Chat Transcript

  Kimberly Carlson: (7/29/2015 14:27) Welcome to CCWG Accountability Meeting #46 on 30 July!  Please note that chat sessions are being archived and follow the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior: http://www.icann.org/en/news/in-focus/accountability/expected-standards 

  Holly Gregory (Sidley): (7/30/2015 04:50) Greetings!

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (04:52) Hi All

  Grace Abuhamad: (04:55) All -- we have a really amazing Wiki page to share with you: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/x/9AzTBQ

  Grace Abuhamad: (04:55) Thank you to Kim for pulling this together

  Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (04:55) hi is it there audio?

  Rosemary Fei (Adler & Colvin): (04:55) Good morning, all.

  Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (04:55) i hear grace!!!

  Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (04:56) thanks

  Grace Abuhamad: (04:56) anytime!

  Konstantinos Komaitis: (04:57) good day all

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair, ALAC): (04:57) hello everyone

  Sabine Meyer (GAC - Germany): (04:58) hi guys!

  Alice Munyua (GAC): (04:58) Hello

  Pär Brumark (GAC Niue): (04:58) Good Afternoon everyone!

  Martin Boyle, Nominet: (04:58) @ Grace Yay:  nice work Kim and team

  Suzanne Radell: (04:59) Good morning all

  James Bladel: (04:59) Morning.

  Matthew Shears: (04:59) hi

  Sabine Meyer (GAC - Germany): (04:59) yeah, a big thank you to the staff.

  Jonathan Zuck (IPC): (04:59) Good day!

  Thomas Rickert, CCWG Co-Chair: (04:59) Hi all!

  Michael Clark (Sidley): (04:59) Good day all

  Phil Buckingham: (05:00) Good morning. .

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (05:01) Hello all ! Good to virtually meet you again

  Avri Doria: (05:04) thank you, i appreciate the offer and accept that there is a deadline for taking advantage of it.

  Maura Gambassi - IT: (05:05) Hi :-)

  Avri Doria: (05:07) so if we are there with monority on time they will be attached to the report, did i understand correctly.

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (05:07) Yes Avri

  Avri Doria: (05:07) thanks

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:08) I am going to try to track changes or comments as we go

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:08) (let's see how that works)

  Grace Abuhamad: (05:10) Page 3

  Eberhard Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (05:11) I am a few minutes delayed by the day jon

  Eberhard Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (05:13) day job rather

  Grace Abuhamad: (05:14) As a reminder, we have created an amazing one-stop shop Wiki page with all the latest documents that compose the report. https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/x/9AzTBQ. We should have done this sooner!

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (05:14) Thanks, Grace.

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:14) Well done.

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair, ALAC): (05:14) indeed amazing Grace. Thanks!

  Holly Gregory (Sidley): (05:15) Grace and Staff -- great work on the wiki -- and on everything else.  VEry impressive effort!!

  Phil Buckingham: (05:15) Thanks  Grace

  Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (05:15) Grace and staff good work!

  Izumi Okutani (ASO): (05:15) Yes, I saw it and find it very helpful, many thanks Grace!

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:15) my audio crashed

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:15) can you hear me?

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:16) my audio has died

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:16) dial out please

  Brenda Brewer: (05:16) Ok Jordan

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (05:16) Yes, no makor change

  Alice Munyua (GAC): (05:16) Thank you Grace. Great work

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:17) let's see if this works

  Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (05:17) The subdivision change is valuable. THanks

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:18) i have audio

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (05:18) Welcome back Jordan

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:18) :-)

  James Bladel: (05:18) Why not once per term?

  Sébastien (ALAC): (05:19) Why 6 months?

  Grace Abuhamad: (05:19) We are on page 6 for those who have joined late

  Eberhard Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (05:20) So I am there, now

  David McAuley (RySG): (05:20) Grace, think we are on 7 now

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:20) totally arbitrary

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:20) it could be anything, 6 mths in a 3 yr term seemd OK

  Grace Abuhamad: (05:21) @David -- thank you!

  David McAuley (RySG): (05:21) 6-7 both being discussed so both right

  Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (05:21) it says "a process" which should cover all the steps, Alan

  Chris Disspain: (05:22) James + 1

  Sébastien (ALAC): (05:22) I all against this section, but if it need to fly, I would like to suggest once a year (or once per term is OK too)

  Izumi Okutani (ASO): (05:22) + 1 James

  Phil Buckingham: (05:22) Good  point , James

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (05:22) Agree with James.

  Martin Boyle, Nominet: (05:22) @James +1

  Izumi Okutani (ASO): (05:23) I support the intention explained by Jordan

  James Bladel: (05:23) No apologies.  I just assumed it is one of the threads buried in my inbox. :)

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:23) I can draft something on this, Alan.

  Grace Abuhamad: (05:23) We are on page 7 now.

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:24) What do people think re James' question?

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:24) once per term, or six months

  Eberhard Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (05:25) I am opposed to once per term

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:25) it's designed to be generic

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:25) in case other SOs or ACs choose to sub-divide

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:26) [if they can do so]

  Alan Greenberg: (05:26) @Jordan, that is a Bylaw provision to "subdivide", so we can lock it into this discussion with certainty at the moment

  Malcolm Hutty: (05:27) gNSO may wish to create its own rules, and change them, e.g. regarding whether this applies to Houses, Stakeholder Groups or Constituencies. So don't be too prescriptive here

  James Bladel: (05:27) They could also do this for the 6 month immunity. Albeit with more difficulty.

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:28) six months isn't a whole term

  David McAuley (RySG): (05:28) Good point Sebastien

  Christopher Wilkinson: (05:28) +1 Once per term. After all, the Directors have all gone through Due Diligence which strongly discourages Directors who might wish to 'game the system'. CW

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:28) Sebastien, true, they can still be removed by other Board members, or the whole board could be removed.

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:29) I am trying to make sure we test this idea, is mainly all.

  Eberhard Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (05:29) put the question properly

  Eberhard Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (05:30) thanks

  Malcolm Hutty: (05:30) Once-per-term seems gamable to me

  Eberhard Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (05:31) that means no Consensus

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:31) can we confirm it please next call?

  Matthew Shears: (05:31) yep - and limiting

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (05:31) me too, Malcolm.

  Eberhard Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (05:31) Please not that for the record

  Chris Disspain: (05:31) Jordan, the problem wirh 'confirmming' on the next call is that there are no guarantees that all folkls will be on both calls

  Grace Abuhamad: (05:32) What do you want me to note Eberhard?

  Eberhard Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (05:32) 10 % of the individuals logged onto Adobe Connect!

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:32) Chris: that's partly the point isn't it?

  Chris Disspain: (05:32) we are only saing this in s a public comment document...if t

  Phil Buckingham: (05:32) The line / speaker is not clear

  Eberhard Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (05:32) That 10% of the individuals logged into AC oppose this and hence it is not Consensus.

  jorge villa (ASO): (05:33) hi everyone. What number of votes are we considering as simple majority?

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:33) huh?

  Izumi Okutani (ASO): (05:35) I think Jorge's qusetion is what would the number be based to consider a simple majority - would it be based on the votes assigned to each SO or AC

  Grace Abuhamad: (05:35) @Eberhard. That's a hard stat to use because there are many folks who have  never participated in the calls/meetings. This meeting is above average attendance I believe: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/acctcrosscomm/pages/97715725/Attendance+Log+CCWG-Accountability

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:35) whatever is the minimum number of votes or part of votes that takes you over 50%

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:35) = simple majority

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (05:36) And it is simple majority within the COUNCIL of the SO or AC

  Grace Abuhamad: (05:36) page 8

  Chris Disspain: (05:36) Since I will not be on the next call ca  I ensure please that my vote on this issue will be taken into account on the seocnd call?

  Greg Shatan: (05:37) In the GNSO a majority requires a majority of each house.

  Alan Greenberg: (05:37) I think that Tijani's suggestion was that ANY AC/SO could create the petition to start the process. Ultimately, the appointing AC/SO would of course have to support the actual removal. But that would use up the 1-per-term.

  Izumi Okutani (ASO): (05:37) So that will be independent of the votes assigned? That's how I understood but would be happy to be corrected if the interpretation is incorrect

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (05:37) Correct Izumi

  Izumi Okutani (ASO): (05:37) Thanks Mathieu for the clarification  - understood

  Chris Disspain: (05:38) I'd appreciate if one of the co-chairs could answer my question re voting on the next call..

  Greg Shatan: (05:38) I don't think one SO/AC should be able to petition for the removal of another SO/AC's appointed director.

  Matthew Shears: (05:39) + 1 Greg

  James Bladel: (05:40) Agreed.

  Rosemary Fei (Adler & Colvin): (05:40) I know, but Holly doesn't want to bring it up.  I can private chat it to Jordan, I guess.

  James Bladel: (05:40) Unless it is in conjunction with spilling the entire board, of course.

  Matthew Shears: (05:40) ?

  Grace Abuhamad: (05:41) page 9

  Rosemary Fei (Adler & Colvin): (05:44) Sorry, please ignore that comment.  Was an inter-lawyer thing

  Malcolm Hutty: (05:45) Why is the petition set high if there is a subsequent vote, and the Community Forum is intended to allow discussion? Is it to prevent discussion in the Community Forum? What is the perceived benefit of that?

  Alan Greenberg: (05:45) A petition requires a MAJORIY of an AC/SO. It requires unanimity to cast all of their 5 votes.

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:46) The petition being set so high was an error

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:46) it is two SOs or ACs (but at least one must be an SO)

  Holly Gregory (Sidley): (05:46) Alan, I thought the rules of how each AC/SO would vote internally was up to each AC/SO

  Lyman Chapin (SSAC): (05:46) @James/Matt/Greg I'm not sure we should limit recall to just the appointing SO/AC - wouldn't that encourage an SO/AC director to pay closest attention to what her individual SO or AC wanted, rather than the interest of the entire Board/organization?

  Phil Buckingham: (05:47) Chris + 1  - we need to play with numbers / scenarios

  Malcolm Hutty: (05:47) Isn't that pretty high? It iplies considerable coordination between SOACs BEFORE the Community Forum takes place

  Malcolm Hutty: (05:47) implies

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:47) Lyman - we have had extensive, extensive debates about that point

  Christopher Wilkinson: (05:47) In terms of communty balance, this voting scenario works if the GAC AC is voting member. Absent the GAC, any issue will escalate politically and the system may become unviable. CW

  Eberhard Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (05:47) I have joined Sebastien

  Lyman Chapin (SSAC): (05:48) It might also make it difficult for a director to take a position within the Board that was unpopular with her appointing body but necessary with respect to the org as a whole

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (05:48) Noted Eberhard

  Lyman Chapin (SSAC): (05:48) @Jordan - OK apologies

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:49) we may be right or wrong but that is where it had landed :)

  Eberhard Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (05:49) Other than my wildcard :-)-O

  Lyman Chapin (SSAC): (05:49) :-)

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (05:49) I am not sure expanding the petitioning would help with your most recent chat

  Grace Abuhamad: (05:50) page 3

  Grace Abuhamad: (05:51) page 9

  Alan Greenberg: (05:51) Revised Section 30 of Director Removal: For the seven directors appointed by one of the three SOs or by the At-Large Community, a process led by that organization or subdivision would decide on the director’s removal. Only the SO or AC that appointed the director could decide on that director’s removal. For the purposes of the following paragraph and sub-sections, SO means the SO or for the case of the GNSO, the GNSO House that has the Bylaw right to appointa Director.

  Alan Greenberg: (05:51) One more comment is that in the section, we should use "SO or AC" and "SO/AC" consistantly. Pick one.

  Grace Abuhamad: (05:51) @Alan -- we will try to fix that in whole document in proofreading phase

  Alan Greenberg: (05:52) I just removed the parathetical and added the last sentence

  Eberhard Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (05:52) just my wildcard :-)-O

  Alan Greenberg: (05:53) @Grace, Thanks! 

  Grace Abuhamad: (05:54) A note for all -- you see some yellow highlights in these documents. When they refer to "Section X", it's a staff note to fix in final compiling, proofreading, etc. to make sure that the numbersing of sections is consistent

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (05:56) under WS2 it says instituting a "culture of accountability" but it should say "culture of transparency" in ICANN.

  Sabine Meyer (GAC - Germany): (05:56) Okay, it's still six powers in the last headline on page 2 followed by a list of five powers....

  Grace Abuhamad: (05:56) @Robin noted

  Grace Abuhamad: (05:56) @Sabine Noted

  Holly Gregory (Sidley): (05:57) Given that the reference to the powers rlated to IANA reviw have been deleted from list of powers consider adding a reference to it in the secion of the Exec Summarry on the Independen Review Processes. 

  Sabine Meyer (GAC - Germany): (05:57) thx

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (05:57) is this summary on the wiki so we can go through it in detail and send comments in?

  Sabine Meyer (GAC - Germany): (05:57) also +1 Holly

  Grace Abuhamad: (05:57) Yes ! https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/x/9AzTBQ

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (05:57) fabulous - thanks!

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (05:59) not sure why human rights is in paraenthesis at the end.  is there not a committent to do this in WS2?

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (06:00) @Robin: pending our later discussion on the matter, that is why

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (06:00) everything is on the Wiki. EVERYTHING

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (06:00) ok, Mathieu, thanks.

  Grace Abuhamad: (06:00) @Jordan -- yes! culture of transparency ;)

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (06:01) I thought it should be both that we wanted

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (06:01) a culture of Accountability and Transparency

  Holly Gregory (Sidley): (06:02) Agree that the references to ie the Constitution, the People, the Executive, the Judiciary are awkward in that they are rough analogies at best.

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (06:02) I don't agree with Christopher that this will be enormously expensive on teh basis that he outlines

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair, ALAC): (06:02) Agree Jordan

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (06:02) that the proposal outlines, sorry

  Malcolm Hutty: (06:03) I can't see why we would expect full time paid participation in the Single Member - the powers of the Single Member would only be activated very rarely anyway

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (06:03) since nobody participates in the Single Member

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (06:03) I quite agree with you, Malcolm.

  Malcolm Hutty: (06:03) CMSM is backstop powers, NOT day-to-day business of ICANN

  Matthew Shears: (06:04) + 1 Malcolm/Jordan

  Jonathan Zuck (IPC): (06:04) Agree Malcolm

  Phil Buckingham: (06:04) + Malcolm  that is my understanding .

  Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (06:04) suggest that we add one paragraph explaining our WS1/WS2 rationale.   This was on page 11 of our first draft proposal:  Work Stream 1 mechanisms were defined as those that, when in place or committed to, would provide the community with confidence that any accountability mechanism that would further enhance ICANN's accountability would be implemented if it had consensus support from the community, even if it were to encounter ICANN management resistance or if it were against the interest of ICANN as a corporate entity.

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (06:05) My version of Alan's change to make it clear GNSO houses:

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (06:05) For the purposes of such a removal process [in para 31 below], SO means the SO or for the case of the GNSO, the GNSO House that has the Bylaw right to appoint a director.

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (06:05) (Alan, I skyped it to you too)

  David McAuley (RySG): (06:05) Thank you Steve, very good point

  Malcolm Hutty: (06:05) However, CW's intervention does point out that maybe we need to be more explicit that what we are doing is providing backstop mechanisms, not redesigning the day-to-day working processes. Otherwise non-CCWG participants may misunderstand us

  Phil Buckingham: (06:06) + steve - good addition

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (06:07) Good point Malcolm. Took note of this

  Grace Abuhamad: (06:07) A note on this document -- we included only references to Stress Tests per a comment from Kavouss

  Avri Doria (participant & atrt): (06:07) i do not accept the idea that we meet the considtion of require 4 for opennes.

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (06:08) I suspect threats to veto the budget and strat/operating plans could be a yearly thing, unlike the other powers, which would be more rarely invoked.

  Avri Doria (participant & atrt): (06:09) will there be a notation abotu the reuirment not having been met?

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (06:09) @Avri: we'll review after we discuss the human rights outstanding item on the agenda

  Avri Doria (participant & atrt): (06:10) at least a comment that there is a difference of opinion on this?

  Avri Doria (participant & atrt): (06:10) ok

  Jonathan Zuck (IPC): (06:10) I continue to believe that the requirement to reach consensus, not only on the desire to reject the budjet, but on the rationale, will make it very unlikely it will occur frequently

  Becky Burr: (06:10) Avri - just to be clear, is it the absence of a human rights commitments that leads you to conclude we haven't met the openness requirement or something else

  Avri Doria (participant & atrt): (06:11) becky, that and nothing else we have done guarantees that in the absence of NTIA backing.

  Becky Burr: (06:11) ok, thanks

  Eberhard Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (06:11) my wildcard

  Avri Doria (participant & atrt): (06:11) i feel we have sort of ignored this requreiemtn and just assumed everything would be ok.  we do not have any specific stress tests that test this.

  Grace Abuhamad: (06:11) The graphic in this document will be updated to include latest from XPLANE

  Grace Abuhamad: (06:12) (to be discussed later in agenda)_

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (06:12) I also think we have failed on the openness requirement.

  Holly Gregory (Sidley): (06:12) In other parts of the Proposal the term "Independent AppealS Mechanisms " is used.  Need to conform text on this slide with the pictures or conform the language elsewhere.  We are marked this several times.l

  Grace Abuhamad: (06:13) ok good catch. noted @ho;;y

  Grace Abuhamad: (06:13) holly*

  Grace Abuhamad: (06:13) page 2

  Holly Gregory (Sidley): (06:14) Grace, I think you are being infected with my mispellings!

  Sabine Meyer (GAC - Germany): (06:14) is your AutoCorrect spreading, Holly? ;)

  Grace Abuhamad: (06:14) that's how you can tell i'm typing the notes. lots of mispellings

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (06:14) In section 5C Sebastien

  Holly Gregory (Sidley): (06:15) Robin/Avri, can you point us to what in the NTIA contract helps assure the openness so that we can better understand your concern about what control will be missing?

  Izumi Okutani (ASO): (06:15) I'd like to review this within the ASO as this is covered in the ASO MoU

  Izumi Okutani (ASO): (06:16) Let me get back to the group if we identify any issues by addition of Board accountability check on SOs/ACs

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (06:16) Noted Izumi, was not awware of this provision in the MoU

  Grace Abuhamad: (06:16) page 5

  Izumi Okutani (ASO): (06:17) OK will try to get back to the group ASAP once confimed Mathieu - thanks

  jorge cancio (GAC): (06:17) On stress tests, please remember that GAC is still looking into this issue

  Grace Abuhamad: (06:17) longest section in the report!

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (06:18) Hety  we have been working solidly  on this  since day + 30 or so   Grace ;-)

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (06:18) @Jorge: we are aware. Anything specific you expect for the PC report ?

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (06:18) Understood and noted @Jorge

  Holly Gregory (Sidley): (06:18) By openness do you mean access, free speech, transparency as to who is speaking? All of the above or just some?

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (06:19) Your ttention ois drawn to pages 28 => 37  for the 'new ST's'  we  have added

  jorge cancio (GAC): (06:20) Just noting it - there is some discussion going on on the GAC side...

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (06:20) ok thank you for clarifying

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (06:21) any idea about timeline of this discussion ?

  jorge cancio (GAC): (06:22) Difficult to say, but there is some aspiration to give an input before the second comment period ends

  Chris Disspain: (06:22) is it our intention to flag in the document that a number of GAC mebers have iussues with this?

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (06:22) Thankks Olga  and when the GAC  comes to a position  we lo forwaed to looking at that as we will of course look forward to any individual Govt's views  in the POC process...

  Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (06:22) Page 3 of the document, please

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (06:24) We can do  Chris  certainly...

  Chris Disspain: (06:24) I thnk we need to CLO

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (06:25) We shall "make it so" then   ...

  Chris Disspain: (06:25) I think Pedro is talking to that point now

  Chris Disspain: (06:25) :-)

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (06:25) yes  he is  and that is noted

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (06:25)  we will note in the body of the dicument some text noting that

  Chris Disspain: (06:25) and it is a very good dicument :-)

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (06:26) hey @el, I *was* trying to be funny on the mailing list :/

  Sabine Meyer (GAC - Germany): (06:26) making a remarkt along the lines of Avris last comment could also be seen as adding to ST 33 recommendations.

  Megan Richards: (06:27) The GAC working group on operating principles is also  expected to address this issue

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (06:27) The text we suggeste in Paruis seemed to b rejected by thise in Paris  so we did not inlude it...

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (06:28) sory about the typois

  Sabine Meyer (GAC - Germany): (06:28) it was?

  Eberhard Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (06:28) so then thaer will be no GAC consenus on that. so what.

  Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (06:29) Lack of GAC support is not the same as GAC opposition.   For GAC to oppose CCWG proposal, it would have to arrive at that position in the absence of any objection.  Not likely to happen

  Chris Disspain: (06:30) Steve, I thojght the chartering orgs had to sign off...no?

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (06:30) Yes they Do Chris

  Pedro Ivo Silva [GAC Brasil]: (06:31) @Steve: my understanding is that the Chartering Organizaions need to approve the CCWG proposal

  Grace Abuhamad: (06:31) page2

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (06:31) Correct Pedro

  Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (06:31) agree with Pedro

  Grace Abuhamad: (06:31) page 6

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (06:31) same rules for this CCWG as for CWG, right?

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (06:32) YUP  Jordan

  Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (06:32) DId you see what the GAC did to sign-off on the CWG proposal?     

  jorge cancio (GAC): (06:32) Everybody should be reasonable I think and avoid extreme positions

  Pedro Ivo Silva [GAC Brasil]: (06:32) +1 jorge

  Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (06:33) Steve can you clarify yourquestion?

  David McAuley (RySG): (06:33) Jorge +1

  Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (06:33) From GAC Commnique in BA: The GAC takes note of the CWG-Stewardship Final Proposal, and states support for its submission to the ICG, without prejudice to comments made publicly by individual delegations.

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (06:33) Steve

  Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (06:33) was that GAC statement equivalent to "signing off" on CWG proposal?

  Eberhard Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (06:34) just my wildcard

  Malcolm Hutty: (06:34) perhaps

  Pedro Ivo Silva [GAC Brasil]: (06:34) @Steve: there was a sign off to support the submission of the CWG proposal to the ICG

  jorge cancio (GAC): (06:36) + other orgs also made some caveats - as you know, many of those due to the conditionality of the CWG Report on the CCWG-Acc  work

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (06:40) Keith proposal : Within its mission and in its operations, ICANN will be committed to respect the fundamental human rights of the exercise of free expression and the free flow of information.

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (06:40) I support Keith's proposal to put that committment in the bylaws.

  jorge cancio (GAC): (06:41) Problem with partial mentions is that there is the possibility of concluding "a contrario" that other HR are ignored

  Chris Disspain: (06:41) My apologies all  but I am going to drop off the call now...

  Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (06:41) Will the document about core values be reviwed in this call or in the next one?

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (06:42) Has been on Tue Olga. Need more review ? thought we had agreement

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (06:43) stepping away from AC  wull stay on phone line

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (06:44) In a feat of live drafting, I have circulated the edits to 5B (community powers) arising from the call on the email list for your delighted eyes.

  David McAuley (RySG): (06:44) Avri can you type that language in

  Chris Disspain: (06:44) But before I do - I am still not comfortable with human rights staements going in at this stage...I'd be open to continuing the discussion and maybe reaching agreement on somethign for WS 1 but I lean towards putting the matter into WS2

  Matthew Shears: (06:45) this is last version from e-mail list I think: ""Within its mission and in its operations, ICANN will be committed torespect, and ensure the respect of, fundamental human rights".

  Holly Gregory (Sidley): (06:45) Avri, could you type your suggested language into the chat?

  Chris Disspain: (06:45) @ matthew...I would need to see a definition of fundamental human rights before I could agree to them going into a legal document lie the by laws

  David McAuley (RySG): (06:45) I commend our group for working hard to develop compromise language for this important issue. In WP2 I took position it was so important that a basic statement would be good in WS1 but detailed work be left for WS2. With this latest statement I have a question: Would the language regarding ‘ensuring’ not be capable of involving obligations affecting content?

  Chris Disspain: (06:46) David + 1

  Samantha Eisner: (06:46) As a matter of governance, I do not agree that the bylaws are a place to house compromise text on issues such as human rights, where even within this group we do not have a common understanding of what that term means and what we are hoping to opening up ICANN to have a responsibility to cover. We should not be placing that uncertainty into the bylaws just in the spirit of compromise.  This is a separate issue from ICANN already having a commitment to recognize human rights within the bounds of its mission.  If we’re going to place this within the core values of ICANN, we need to not have uncertainty of what we mean or how it will impact the organization.

  Chris Disspain: (06:46) bye all

  Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (06:47) @Mathiew yes just was interested in review the final text

  Grace Abuhamad: (06:48) @Olga -- Documents can be found here: https://icann-community.atlassian.net/wiki/x/9AzTBQ

  Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (06:48) Many thanks Grace

  Avri Doria (participant & atrt): (06:49) Then we may need to study them before we complete WS1

  Matthew Shears: (06:49) We also agree in a WP2 call to put the issue of how we address HR in the proposal as an explicit  question for comment

  Matthew Shears: (06:50) if I recall correctly

  Avri Doria (participant & atrt): (06:50) the argument about .doctor was just an argument, it was not a proper impact analysis of that claim.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (06:53) back  into  AC

  Greg Shatan: (06:53) No change to the bylaws in WS1.  Support  a strong commitment in WS1 to work on this issue in WS2.

  David McAuley (RySG): (06:54) Speaking personally, one concern, e.g., is that  rights of free expression and rights to dignity (paraphrasing) can clash – I support the idea that this needs in-depth work that seems right for WS2 with Keith’s language in WS1

  Greg Shatan: (06:54) Economic rights are not recognized in the bylaws.

  Avri Doria (participant & atrt): (06:54)  i am fine with just a mention of fundmenetal human rights without d=singling any out.  i can also accept  Nigel's construction.  i firmly beleuve that we cannot go forward with WS1 without some solution and if that requres study we better get on with it.

  Olga Cavalli - GAC Argentina: (06:54) I must leave the call now I wil join next call later today, great work co-chairs and staff!

  Eberhard Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (06:55) You can not compromise on Human Rights!

  James Bladel: (06:55) On a personal level, I agree with Robin. I just don't want "human rights" to be a wedge between commercial players & customers. 

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (06:56) can the KD wording be pasted in chat?

  James Bladel: (06:56) For example, shutting down websites for terms of service violations.  They don't have a right to spam, spread malware, hate speech,e tc.    So long as we can keep this concept out of our contracts, I can support it.

  Greg Shatan: (06:56) If we can recognize human rights without the unintended consequence of "rebalancing" the current treatment of IP rights, that would go a long way to addressing my specific concern.  I still think we don't know what we are committing ICANN to.

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (06:56) Within its mission and in its operations, ICANN will be committed to respect the fundamental human rights of the exercise of free expression and the free flow of information."

  Grace Abuhamad: (06:56) Proposal text from Keith Drazek: Within its mission and in its operations, ICANN will be committed to respect the fundamental human rights of the exercise of free expression and the free flow of information.

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (06:57) James, I don't think it has to be.  Commercial players have free speech rights too!  ;-)

  jorge cancio (GAC): (06:57) Agree with Robin, and not only free speech rights

  Grace Abuhamad: (06:57) Green ticks (yes, add Keith's text): 8Red crosses (no): Tijani + 3

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (06:57) keep your hands up

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (06:57) 15 green ticks

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (06:57) 4 red crosses

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (06:57) I count 15 green ticks

  Avri Doria (participant & atrt): (06:58) 2/3

  Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (06:58) I will need to check with CSG members before indicating agreement on this

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (06:58) 16 green ticks

  Greg Shatan: (06:58) How do we count abstentions on a call with 58 participants.

  Samantha Eisner: (06:58) Again, I think that good governance dictates that we don't insert terms into teh Bylaws that we all agree "have a leot of detail" to understand how they will impact ICANN

  Christopher Wilkinson: (06:58) That is a green cross, but I would add 'particularly' expression and information

  Grace Abuhamad: (06:58) Yes numbers are updated

  Sébastien (ALAC): (06:58) And the abstention compte for what?

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (06:58) a greeen cross? that is a tricky thing to imagine

  Eberhard Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (06:58) Which ones are member sand which ones are participants?

  Eberhard Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (06:58) Participants do not have a vote here

  Matthew Shears: (06:58) and thanks to Keith for the language

  Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (06:59) bye all

  Eberhard Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (06:59) please note my wildcard objections for tonight's call

  Eberhard Lisse [.NA ccTLD Manager]: (06:59) Rest? SOme of us have to work for a living

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (06:59) Talk again soon then team...  Bye for now...  Thanks everyone.:-)

  David McAuley (RySG): (06:59) Time flies, bye all till later

  Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (06:59) bye team

  Pär Brumark (GAC Niue): (06:59) Thx all! ´Later!

  James Bladel: (06:59) Thanks folks..  ANd co-chairs/Staff.

  Matthew Shears: (06:59) thanks

  jorge cancio (GAC): (06:59) bye

  Izumi Okutani (ASO): (06:59) thanks all

  Greg Shatan: (06:59) Bye all.

  Christopher Wilkinson: (06:59) Okay, Green Tick. But not exculding all the other HR aspects in the Sidley memo.

  Rosemary Fei (Adler & Colvin): (06:59) bye all

  Phil Buckingham: (06:59) thank you  co chairs

  Michael Clark (Sidley): (06:59) Bye for the time being

  Kimberly Carlson: (07:00) Thanks All, bye