WP4 Meeting #2 (2 September)
- Brenda Brewer
- Grace Abuhamad
Sub-group Members: Carolina Rossini, David McAuley, Ellen Blackler, Finn Petersen, Greg Shatan, Leon Sanchez, Marilia Maciel, Matthew Shears, Melanie Penagos, Nigel Roberts, Phil Buckingham, Robin Gross
Staff: Alice Jansen, Brenda Brewer
Apologies: Martin Boyle
**Please let Brenda know if your name has been left off the list (attendees or apologies).**
Transcript
Recording
- The Adobe Connect recording is available here: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/p6rxigmkgbe/
- The audio recording is available here: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-wp4-02sep15-en.mp3
Notes
These high-level notes are designed to help you navigate through content of the call and do not substitute in any way the transcript.
Draft is available in google for edits/comments.
Comments received on mailing list:
- It does not capture discussions;
Feedback:
- Stick to alternatives in paragraph 151. This should be addressed in WS2.
- Declare intent instead of a statement. It can be addressed in WS2. We need a rationale.
--> Suggestion to stick to paragraph 151 and further develop this item in WS2.
- We should have a document explaining why we need that statement in the report.
- The rationale is going to require fact-based analysis.
- Clarify whether replacing a human rights backstop had in place or are we rebalancing ICANN. We need a detailed proposal.
--> Suggestion to continue to build document and put forward proposal to implement item 2 of paragraph 151
- We can agree a simple text with rationale and provide a supporting doc that outlines the issues that would be discussed in WS2
- Suggestion to remove "internationally recognized"
ACTION ITEM: Include suggestion to drop "internationally recognized" for group consideration
- Which rights are fundamental and which aren't? Unclear which is why rationale is important. Definitional work is needed.
- Internationally recognized --> we refer to laws that have an international status. Recommend to leave it there.
- "Fundamental and human rights" raises confusion.
- Human rights are related to the inherent dignity of human kind and are equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family, forming the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world." - http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/
CONCLUSION: State in our document that we will propose the CCWG embraces the second proposal in paragraph 151 of the report and draft a very concrete guideline that could serve as a framework of interpretation that we will suggest including in Bylaws with a note that this would be developed in WS2.
- How would it fit in public comment period?
---> We will have larger CCWG to approve, comment or modify whatever we are proposing to larger group.
- We should bring in public comment from the community into our work.
Action Items
ACTION ITEM: Include suggestion to drop "internationally recognized" for group consideration
Documents Presented
Chat Transcript
Brenda Brewer: (9/2/2015 12:34) Welcome to WP-4 Meeting #2 on 02 September 2015 @ 18:00 UTC! Please note that chat sessions are being archived and follow the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior: http://www.icann.org/en/news/in-focus/accountability/expected-standards
Leon Sanchez: (12:59) Hello everyone
David McAuley: (13:00) Hello
Ellen Blackler: (13:01) Hello
Greg Shatan: (13:01) Hello, all!
Alice Jansen: (13:02) gdoc link https://docs.google.com/document/d/15t32Y7DyzGCAR21XT9koN9y2hNK_nAifuNZGwaFfnlQ/edit
matthew shears: (13:05) hi
David McAuley: (13:10) Agree with your comment @Leon
David McAuley: (13:12) That's right Greg, that's what I said. Not opposed to framework doc but suggest we don't do the work of WS2 in WS1
David McAuley: (13:13) You got mine right @Leon
Greg Shatan: (13:14) I don't think we can change the bylaws in WS1 and then figure out what it all means in WS2.
David McAuley: (13:14) Agree with Matthew re option 2 of paragraph 151
Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:14) Agree with Mathew.
Greg Shatan: (13:14) That strikes me as a "Ready, Fire, Aim" approach.
David McAuley: (13:14) Not opposed to framework doc, @Greg
Tatiana Tropina: (13:15) Agree with Matthew. Option 1 is too narrow
matthew shears: (13:15) agree we still need a framework doc
matthew shears: (13:17) we can agree a simple text with rationale and provide a supporting doc that outlines the issues that would be discussed in WS2
Carolina: (13:22) agree with the commentary on droping the words
matthew shears: (13:22) agree that it needs some wordsmithing
Tatiana Tropina: (13:23) agree - we had discussion on Google Doc, too
matthew shears: (13:23) lets just keep the text development in the existing google doc
Tatiana Tropina: (13:23) The google doc would be very helpful! Thanks!
Carolina: (13:23) I agree
Carolina: (13:23) with Matthew, one only google doc
Carolina: (13:24) or at least, pls list the links ..so folks can navigate the documents
Carolina: (13:24) and know which one is the valid one
David McAuley: (13:24) I agree with Greg that we need at least some definitional term to use for human rights
matthew shears: (13:24) its typically fiundamental rights (which is more than human rights UDHR) or human rights
Carolina: (13:25) definition from http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/
Carolina: (13:25) here
Carolina: (13:26) "Human rights are related to the inherent dignity of human kind and are equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family, forming the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world."
David McAuley: (13:27) Fundamental and human rights, though, could pose problems of being very broad and imprecise though @Leon
Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:27) I think "fundamental and human rights" raises confusion.
matthew shears: (13:28) fundamental rights include the ICCPr for example, not just the UDHR
Carolina: (13:28) +1 on Matthew
Greg Shatan: (13:28) Marilia, that is definitely highly welcome!
Tatiana Tropina: (13:29) + 1 to Robin. I think the term fundametal rights might have different meanings
Marilia Maciel: (13:29) Great :)
Marilia Maciel: (13:29) Happy to!
Carolina: (13:30) it is ok., no need
Carolina: (13:30) plus I do not think I have permission to talk
Carolina: (13:30) but I wrote what I needed to say
Ellen Blackler: (13:32) can anyone point me are there other explanatory notes that have been used - so i see where we are aiming?
David McAuley: (13:36) @Ellen, Nigel posted a note to the WP4 list a bit ago that was fairly extensive, I can forward following call
Ellen Blackler: (13:36) i can find it i am sure.
David McAuley: (13:36) I think it was about two weeks ago
David McAuley: (13:36) maybe more but not much
matthew shears: (13:37) there is plenty of info on ICANN and HR - CoE, Article 19, etc, have written on the issue
matthew shears: (13:37) as background
matthew shears: (13:37) for this discussion
David McAuley: (13:37) on mute?
Greg Shatan: (13:37) I would look at some of those writings with a rather critical eye...
David McAuley: (13:38) I misunderstood Ellen, not sure where you can find that
matthew shears: (13:38) @ Greg - other dox specific to ICANN?
David McAuley: (13:43) Thank you Leon, good bye all
Greg Shatan: (13:43) Bye all!
matthew shears: (13:43) thanks Leon, all
Ellen Blackler: (13:43) didnt mean to send us down a rabiit hole!