Sub-group Members: Alain Bidron, , Andrew Harris, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, Claudio Lucena, Corinne Cath, David McAuley, Finn Petersen, Greg Shatan, Griffin Barnett, Herb Waye, Jean-Jacques Subrenat, Jeff Neuman, Jorge Cancio, Mike Silber, Pedro da Silva, Philip Corwin, Rafael Perez Galindo, Tatiana Tropina, Tijani BEN JEMAA. (19)
Observers: Amrita Choudhury, Taylor RW Bentley, Veni Markovski. (3)
Staff: Brenda Brewer, Bernard Turcotte, Karen Mulberry, Yvette Guigneaux. (4)
Apologies: Paul McGrady, Vinay Kesari. (2)
** If your name is missing from attendance or apology, please send note to acct-staff@icann.org **
Transcript
- Word Doc
Recording
The Adobe Connect recording is available here: https://participate.icann.org/p7csf3lcdj3/
The audio recording is available here:
Agenda
CCWG-Accountability | Work Stream 2 | Jurisdiction Subgroup Meeting #6
October 5 2016
1. Welcome
2. Scope of our Work
3. Is the Possibility of Moving ICANN’s Place of Incorporation or Headquarters Location from California in Scope?
4. Confirming and Assessing the Gap Analysis
a. “Gap” analyzed in Work Stream 1
b. Result of Gap Analysis in Work Stream 1
c. How should we confirm the Work Stream 1 Gap Analysis?
5. Multiple Layers of Jurisdiction
6. Other Potential Inputs to our Work.
a. Pertinent Literature (influenced by Scope)
b. Experts/Legal Advice
Notes
Yvette Guigneaux: Good day and welcome to the WS2 - Jursidiction Subgroup Meeting #6 | Wednesday, 05 October 16| 13:00 UTC!
Pedro da Silva - [GAC Brasil]: Hello everyone!
jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): hi there!
Brenda Brewer: Yes, Jean-Jacques, we hear you.
David McAuley: Hi Brenda, I am 4154
David McAuley: Good morning all
Bernard Turcotte: hello all
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): hi
Pedro da Silva - [GAC Brasil]: Hi Brenda, I am 6609
Jean-Jacques Subrenat: Hi All.
jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): @Pedro: almost 666
Herb Waye Ombuds: Good morning everyone
Pedro da Silva - [GAC Brasil]: @Jorge: LOL...what do you mean?
jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): @Pedro: oh, no... nothing, really...
Pedro da Silva - [GAC Brasil]: :-D
Jean-Jacques Subrenat: Is this meeting due to start at 13:00 UTC?
Mike Silber: it was JJ
Philip Corwin: I am the 5316 number
jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): Is there any new proposal on the scope of our work? We still have Annex 12 approved by the community in Marrakech - that should be our basis...
David McAuley: Annex 12, paragraph 30 seems pretty clear: At this point WS2’s focus should be on the settlement of dispute jurisdiction issues – in that effort we should include confirming and assessing not the “gap” but the “gap analysis” –meaning, IMO, the provisions we have put in place for dispute resolutions – will they/do they work?
Jean-Jacques Subrenat: For item 3 on our agenda, I will refer to a document of which I was a co-author, "Improving Institutional Confidence of ICANN", see archive.icann.org/en/psc/iic/improving-confidence-ne.pdf
jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): I feel the discussion on scope gets us into a circle... until we do not tackle the issues potentially under the scope agreed in Marrakech we won't see whether they are or not off-limits
jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): audio is low
Bernard Turcotte: very faint
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): no audio on phne bridge at all
Tatiana Tropina: It feels quite good - you miss the couple of calls due to the tight travel schedule, and here we go - moving headquarters, not moving headquarters. My opinion stays the same - this is comletely out of scope.
jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): we should aknowledge reality and move headquarters to adobe space
Tatiana Tropina: Jorge, a rare case when I agree with you :D
Tatiana Tropina: awwww I hope digital means Adobe connect space (lame attemp to joke)
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): if the AC S was more stable Jorge I would agree ;-)
Tatiana Tropina: Cheryl, nothing is stable, nothing in this world
jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): @CLO: if it were stable it wouln't be fun...
David McAuley: very feint sounds
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): :-)
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): thought it was feedback sunds briefly
Yvette Guigneaux: We heard you for a minute there Jean-Jacques, then faded again - working on getting IT involved to troubleshoot
Bernard Turcotte: Voice is clear on Adobe but not on phone bridge
jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): @staff: the proposal of moving to adobe is a joke and should logically not be on the notes :-)
Bernard Turcotte: AND IS NOT
Tatiana Tropina: Is it Greg speaking now?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): OK in the AC only not good for the record
Rafael Perez Galindo (GAC Spain): Am I the only one hearing Jean jacques??
Tatiana Tropina: Am lost and dunno whom to listen to
Tatiana Tropina: I heard both, speaking at the same time
David McAuley: Rafael - I could not hear him
Tatiana Tropina: but am not on the phone bridge (travelling)
Jean-Jacques Subrenat: 2 remarks:
Yvette Guigneaux: It appears some on the listening bridge only can hear Jean-Jacques but those on AC visual cannot, my apologies Jean-Jacques, working on this now
Tatiana Tropina: I heard him loud and clear and Greg was very faint
Rafael Perez Galindo (GAC Spain): Weird... I heard him pretty loud, actually
Rafael Perez Galindo (GAC Spain): Yeah Tania
Tatiana Tropina: Rafael, me too
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): I agree with David nd Phil here
David McAuley: that is weird - i heard not a sound
Alain Bidron 2: No I can also hear Jean-Jacques but through the ADOBE
David McAuley: I am listening via phone line
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): I only hear him on the AC audio not the phone bridge
Tatiana Tropina: David, seems that you listened to Greg then, we listened to both :(
Jean-Jacques Subrenat: 1) In "Improving Institutional Confidence" 2008-09, I as one of the co-authors had proposed the notion of "additional jurisdiction", rather than "alternative jurisdiction". This was important: ICANN Headquarters would not change, but jurisdiction could be added for non-contract aspects.
David McAuley: seems strange Tatiana - I can listen to both sources from now though
Tatiana Tropina: aren't we supposed to know as those who were involved in the WS2 what was meant
Jean-Jacques Subrenat: 2) I agree with one of the previous speakers (David?) that we could agree to distinguish 2 things, contract-related items (US/California jurisdiction) and other items (conflict resolution, etc).
Tatiana Tropina: Sorry in WS1
jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): I wouldn't dare to opine on the placement of the wheel without asking our UK friends :-)
Finn Petersen, GAC - DK: Denmark is of the view that it is not within our scope to recommend moving ICANN’s Place of Incorporation or Headquarters Location from California. But if anybody can point to potential problems, we might look into means to address such problems without changing ICANN’s place of incorporation.
jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): @David: thanks, hope that we keep efforts in parallel well coordinated...
David McAuley: Thanks Jorge - still work to be done at IRP IoT
jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): @David: it would be so important to make sure the IRP is considered as a global venue, accessible, etc...
David McAuley: Agreed
Jean-Jacques Subrenat 2: @Greg: I agree that "moving the headquarters out of California" is not an urgent matter. We should examine what ADDITIONAL jurisdictions could achieve, for specific purposes.
jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): For the reasons given I step away from such a straw poll
Bernard Turcotte: Time note: 15 minutes left in the call
Rafael Perez Galindo (GAC Spain): I do
jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): dear all: I have a hard stop. However, I would like to recall the issues I have mentioned in an email today that could fit into some of these layers
Jeff Neuman: I hear him through Adobe Connect
Jeff Neuman: The problem is through phone only i guess
Tatiana Tropina: I can hear loud and clear
Tatiana Tropina: but I am on Adobe only
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): go ahead
Greg Shatan: jj now on phone
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): BTW the preferred use of AC only holds IMO where the technology including Internet connection bandwidth and reliabiity is suitable Often even here in AU it is *not*
Pedro da Silva - [GAC Brasil]: difficult to understand Jean-Jacques (via phone)
Bernard Turcotte: just lost JJS
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): indeed
David McAuley: Agree w Pedro and now no longer hear via phone
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): now lost totally
Philip Corwin: JJ audio kaput
Veni Markovski: Now he's gone. I am only on the computer, adobe room, and couldn't understand him either.
Jean-Jacques Subrenat 2: why is not a majority of users using Adobe??
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): aweful audio
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): cause it is CR*p
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): as you just demonstrated
Jean-Jacques Subrenat 2: @but why Greg? Is there not an agreed principle?
Jean-Jacques Subrenat 2: On ALAC calls it works fine...
Jeff Neuman: I use Adobe for both and it usually works well for me
David McAuley: I switch between them depending on audio quality
Tijani BEN JEMAA: @David, me too
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): as do I but alwways speak through phine t ensure best audio where possible
David McAuley: Me too CLO - speak over phone
Jean-Jacques Subrenat 2: @Greg: I suggest we use "additional jurisdictions" to avoid confusion about wanting to change headquarters or not. I was also saying it would be useful to examine several tasks where an additional jurisdiction would be useful, e.g. hiring people outside the US (employment, insurance, taxes).
Jean-Jacques Subrenat 2: @Greg: seen from Europe, 1, 2 and 3 can come under the same heading (incorporation, headquarters, physical presence).
Bernard Turcotte: Timing last minute
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): Thanks everyone... we are progressing it seems :-) talk again soon... Bye for now...
Philip Corwin: ciao
David McAuley: Thanks Greg, staff, all, good bye
Tatiana Tropina: thanks a lot Greg and all! Bye
Bernard Turcotte: bye all
Claudio Lucena: Bye all
Documents Presented
Multiple Layers of Jurisdiction.pdf
PotentialAspectsofScopeandFocusofJurisdictionSubgroup.pdf
Chat Transcript