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Tabular Comparison - v2 - 22 Oct 2014
MP3 Recording: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-20141028-en.mp3
Meeting Transcript: http://gnso.icann.org/en/meetings/transcript-ppsa-28oct14-en.pdf
Attendees:
Steve Metalitz - IPC
Graeme Bunton – RrSG
Griffin Barnett – IPC
Frank Michlick – Individual
Don Blumenthal – RySG
David Heasley-IPC
Jim Bikoff-IPC
Chris Pelling – RrSG
Kathy Kleiman – NCSG
Justin Macy - BC
Susan Kawaguchi – BC
Kristina Rosette – IPC
Darcy Southwell – RrSG
Paul McGrady – IPC
Sarah Wyld – RrSG
Victoria Scheckler - IPC
Michele Neylon – RrSG
Val Sherman – IPC
Alex Deacon – IPC
Todd Williams – IPC
Phil Corwin – BC
Volker Greimann - RrSG
Holly Raiche – ALAC
Theo Geurts - RrSG
Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP
Tatiana Khramtsova - RrSG
Stephanie Perrin - NCSG
David Cake - NCSG
Susan Prosser - RrSG
Christian Dawson - ISPC
Apologies:
Amr Elsadr - NCSG
Carlton Samuels – At-Large
James Bladel – RrSG
ICANN staff:
Mary Wong
Amy Bivins
Glen de Saint Géry
Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday 28 October 2014:
Glen de Saint Gery:Welcome to the PPSAI call on October 28 2014
Graeme Bunton:No audio via adobe? only call in?
Glen de Saint Gery:sound should be up
Holly Raiche:Are the dial outs being made?
Graeme Bunton:I only see the option to dial in
Holly Raiche:Is the option replacing an earlier request for a dial out?
Mary Wong:Hi all, there was a new plugin I had to download today - I have Adobe sound and mic.
Glen de Saint Gery:Holly we are dialing out to you now
Holly Raiche:Thanks
Chris Pelling:afternoon all
Theo Geurts:good afternoon all
Graeme Bunton:I am able to test my mic set up using the audio setup in the adobe connect, but the option is still not enabled when I try to connect my audio
Osvaldo Novoa:Hello all, I will dial in now.
Graeme Bunton:dialing in, waiting on operator
Volker Greimann:what was that just now? no audio?
Volker Greimann:did anyone elses audio drop or just mine?
Michele Neylon:got dropped by the operator
Frank Michlick:I still have audio in the adobe room.
Glen de Saint Gery:the operrator is getting people on the line
Chris Pelling:I can also hear audio in the room
steve metalitz:Schedule looks good to me.
Glen de Saint Gery:@Volker, is your audio all right now?
Holly Raiche:Actually, in apAC, therarere many very different regimes
Holly Raiche:Sorry - thought you meant APAC region
David Cake:I agree that F2F went well.
Stephanie Perrin:Audio is going back and forth...is that me or are other people having trouble?
Michele Neylon:Dialling in might be saner
Mary Wong:@Steve, yes
Mary Wong:Staff is assuming that the proposal highlighted in the document pertained only to Disclosure and not Publication
Stephanie Perrin:@Michele thx
Paul McGrady:Apologies, but I am having a really hard time hearing Don today.
Michele Neylon:Paul - dialling in seems to work - adobe might be a bit b0rked
Paul McGrady:Michele - thanks! I will try that.
Glen de Saint Gery:if you need a dialout, please let me know
David Cake:I was about to discuss, just realise I need to dial in
Paul McGrady:Dial in is much better. Thanks!
David Cake:I have no great issues with what Steve said, but I have disagreements with some of Vals other suggestions.
Stephanie Perrin:agree witk Kathy K
Volker Greimann:+1
Philip Corwin:On Disclosure, what IP rights are we talking about? Not patent, I presume. Certainly copyright. But are we including trademark -- there is UDRP and URS for that, and I don't think we should be creating a parallel procedure for domain name-related trademark allegations. sale of counterfeit goods on a website may be a different matter.
Chris Pelling:Sorry I am listening, where are we page and point ?
Chris Pelling:page 1 point 1 ?
Mary Wong:@Chris, we're on the Relay issue
Graeme Bunton:Ahahahaah. Thanks Steve
Don Blumenthal':And Val's suggested edits in email.
Val Sherman:My point regarding cost-shifting was specific to the second bullet -- which references a number of failed attempts at delivery via the email address provided.
Graeme Bunton:Technically, not 'mine'
Mary Wong:@Graeme, too late :)
Michele Neylon:nor mine
Todd Williams:+1 Steve. This is pretty narrow. Doesn't implicate examples Graham mentioned.
Todd Williams:Graeme. Sorry. :)
Kathy:Oh no - more quilts!
Kathy:Quilts and diapers....
Chris Pelling:+1 Michele
Volker Greimann:Not more diapers, please
steve metalitz:Agree with Michele that all conclusions are preliminary but without "must" there's not a definable minimum standard for accreditation.
Kristina Rosette:Apologies in advance for when/if I come off mute: The DC cab drivers are having another honking protest on Pennsylvania Avenue (immediately under my office window).
Mary Wong:@Kristina, hence the need to move offices! :)
Kristina Rosette:+1 to Steve w/r/t need for "must" in order to have an actual minimum standard
Stephanie Perrin:REcommend parking the idea until we are closer to completion. Also recommend leaving discretion with providers. They are after all responsible.
Michele Neylon:+1 Stephanie
Volker Greimann:so essentially the taxi drivers are pushing you to use Uber instead again?
Michele Neylon:Taxi drivers - don't get me started ..
Kathy:I agree with the concerns raised by Michele and Stephanie, but also the note that the "should" applies only to the electronic communication. That is a detail I imissed.
Kathy:Perhaps we should add a line that p/p service provides have discretion over any non-electronic communication that they receive.
Kathy:providers
Val Sherman:David -- we are talking about a stiuation where there have been a "certain minimum number of delivery failures -- i.e. hard bounces bc something is wrong with the email.
Volker Greimann:Totally disagree with Steve: The standards for accreditation have nothing to do with forcing a provider to provide a third party with a potentially useless message.
Stephanie Perrin:Is thew issue of must/should not something that we ask for comments on at the end of our drafting process? and cinch up accordingly?
Alex Deacon:@michele - agreed. one a single 5xx falure should be sufficient.
Michele Neylon:http://www.iana.org/assignments/smtp-enhanced-status-codes/smtp-enhanced-status-codes.xhtml
Alex Deacon:a single....
Michele Neylon:temporary failures are a different matter
Kathy:I think Val's suggestion of yesterday is one we should go back to our SG on and talk about it.
Alex Deacon:right
Chris Pelling:some nice feedback a few times then
Volker Greimann:I am not currently dialled in. Usually use the Adobe
Glen de Saint Gery:can we call out to you Volker?
Volker Greimann:dialing in now
Kathy:@Mary, in the notes, final paragraph, could you change "our" to "Val's" and then add some notes re: the concerns raised by others (because this is a shift of several things including should -> must and cost shifting.
Kathy:Tx!
Chris Pelling:Cheers kathy
Volker Greimann:did not realize I would be asked to present
Don Blumenthal':Validated postal code?
Michele Neylon:huh?
Don Blumenthal':Thinking of the Whois check processes
Michele Neylon:There's no requirement to check post codes
Volker Greimann:we just deactivated post-code checks for certain countries
Volker Greimann:(and before you send an email to compliance, these are countries that do not have postal codes)
Chris Pelling:Steve - we do not control content
Darcy Southwell:@Steve, That was helpful, thanks.
Graeme Bunton:Typically, when we work on malware and phishing issues, its with people we've built relationships with over years. I worry that removing our discretion on what to respond means that we then need to be far more rigid with those issues.
Don Blumenthal':I should clarify. We don't see malware as a content issue without our anti abuse polcy. The point was to suggest that "content" definitions may vary.
Michele Neylon:+1 Graeme
Val Sherman:+1 @ Steve and Paul -- disclosure may obviate and/or faciliate a URS or UDRP.
Kristina Rosette:And, NAF's URS supplemental rules make clear that the Respondent is the person/entity listed in Whois when the case is filed. That would be the proxy provider. So Phil's proposed solution doesn't seem to apply to URS.
Don Blumenthal':Question for me or Paul?
Kathy:+1 Volker - we have to take into account abuse on both sides - Registrants and Lawyers/Those seeking info
Paul McGrady:I'm happy to respond to Volker's comment, but it appears we are out of time.
Don Blumenthal':OK. For me. I'll follow up. in email.
Philip Corwin:I have to leave call at 11 sharp but reiterate my concern abiout compulsory disclosure oif registrant data based upon mere allegation of TM infringement by a domain name. UDRP and URS filings sometimes are denied, yet we would compel disclsoure absent a decision on the merits. Also, while relay of a C&D letter may help avoid filing of a UDRP or URS, disclosure of registrant data does not promote that result.
Kathy:I would like to hear Paul's response...
Michele Neylon:Agree with Phil
Kathy:Same bat channel. Bye all
Michele Neylon:allegation of TM infringement is not the same as actual infringement
Frank Michlick:Thank you.
Michele Neylon:bye