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  Gisella Gruber-White:Welcome to the ROP Definitions and Structure Drafting Team meeting on Wednesday 29 August 2012 at 1800 UTC
  Gisella Gruber-White:Agenda: https://icann-community.icannatlassian.orgnet/wiki/x/xBAeAgxeXuBQ
  Holly Raiche:Hi Gisella - so where is the humming?
  Holly Raiche:It's so nice to be here - for the call timing.  So sorry CLO - my condolences
  Rudi Vansnick:hi everybody ...
  Rudi Vansnick:i'm also on the adobe audio bridge
  Natalia Enciso:Hello everyone!
  Carlton Samuels:Hi Rudi
  Carlton Samuels:Hi Sala
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Hi all
  Eduardo Diaz:Hola a todos!
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Hola Edwardo
  Matt Ashtiani:hola, eduardo. como esta?
  Eduardo Diaz:@matt: bien gracias
  Matt Ashtiani:bien!
  Gisella Gruber-White:Dev Anand Teelucksngh has joined the call
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:not true  shall not be shot at all t will all come together perfectly :-)
  Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Hello everyone!
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Hi Dev
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:can we have scroll capability on the doc please
  Heidi Ullrich:Are you now able to scroll?
  Eduardo Diaz:no
  Heidi Ullrich:Try now, please
  Eduardo Diaz:now, yes
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:now yes
  Heidi Ullrich::)
  Eduardo Diaz:What does ESA/DM means?
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:I see Hollythat makes sense
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:DS  would be  this  team
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr: I assume
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:Thank you Holly :)
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:Good idea Holly
  Eduardo Diaz:I am sorry but I am not sure waht ESA is?
  Eduardo Diaz:CAn someone tell me?
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:tat would be the  Election  Appoints
  Eduardo Diaz:Thanks
  Holly Raiche:elec tions, selections and appointments
  Carlton Samuels:I think I was dropped!
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:@Eduardo - description of DTs were sent in the Summary; refer to the Table
  Heidi Ullrich:We'll check, Carlton.
  Eduardo Diaz:@sala: link?
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Framework is an ideal term  Holly yes
  Carlton Samuels:Thanks Heidi. Appreciate you request a ring for me
  Carlton Samuels:Back!
  Heidi Ullrich:Welcome!
  Alan Greenberg:What is URL for template. Can't find it.
  Eduardo Diaz:@sala: I got it?
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr: my hand id up again
  Heidi Ullrich:Will get it
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:@ Eduardo, open your DSDT email where I sent the Summary of the Joint Meeting
  Gisella Gruber-White:Alejandro Pisanty has joined the adobe connect room
  Alejandro Pisanty:Hi all, apologies for late arrival.
  Heidi Ullrich:Template: https://icann-community.icannatlassian.orgnet/wiki/display/atlarge/At-Large+Rules+of+Procedure+Modification+Proposals+Workspace
  Heidi Ullrich:I hope that is it!
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:That Summay includes all the links and describes the Drafting Teams
  Heidi Ullrich:Cheryl is that it?
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Hola Alejandro
  Alejandro Pisanty:Hi Cheryl
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Yes  stage setting  is very much our  job  Framework and  Stage setting
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Scroll ability please
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:Yes the Introduction will be brief and the whereas can be hyperlinked to history
  Gisella Gruber-White:Please remember to state your names when speaking
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:we can use one word like "history" which is hyperlinked to the history [whereas] and agree with Holly where penholders can do it
  Carlton Samuels:@CLO: ON D & S: +1
  Carlton Samuels:You took half of what I wanted to say!
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@Carlton: that's why I don't put my hand up anymore. I jus tthink it & Cheryl says it
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:The reason why I used sub-committees within ALAC RoP was because ALAC refers to the principal on committee so when we used sub committee was to refer to the ALAC sub committee
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:we can easily differentiate ALAC sub committee from other sub committees in other parts of ICANN and CLO's comments are critical as we factor this in the Defitions section
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:we have  Sub Committees  yes Sal  we always will but they are a different beat to a Work Group  etc.,  and they can be either Standing, or AdHoc or Topic/ Action based  
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:Agreed
  Gisella Gruber-White:Jacqueline Morris joined the Adobe Connect room
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:the TERM  Sub Committe is used by ALL parts of ICANN we need to defin what it means for us
  Eduardo Diaz:I do not think any of the teams are considering these policy procedures withing ALAC.  I suggest we put that in another document.
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:also needs  simple  language and ability to translate
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:yes CLO we can say sometihng like "The ALAC Sub Committee is...."
  Eduardo Diaz:it's important.
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Sala  as I sid  ALAC already has differenct  TYPES of  Sub Committee
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Standing and Other
  Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Useful to be documented , but not in the RoP
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Other may be Ad Hoc  or  Topic based  etc.,
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Yes  dev  thus the need t use links  to Annexes and supporting dicumentaion
  Heidi Ullrich:Would a one page graphic of the ALAC policy advice development process be useful?
  Dev Anand Teelucksingh:But work was done as part of the At-Large Improvements
  Carlton Samuels:@Alan: On common sense: Agreed on need for simplicit and not everything will or should be in RoP.  But common sense is not so common
  Heidi Ullrich:Similiar to the PDP slide bottom left on this page: http://gnso.icann.org/en/ongoing-work/policy-activities.htm
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:in the Rules  per se NO  but linked  to it as a reference Appendix
  Dev Anand Teelucksingh:@Heidi - that could be useful
  Carlton Samuels:I still believe the way the output from deliberations and votes - the process is delivered to  the target (= the Board) is absolutely critical to outline!
  Dev Anand Teelucksingh:such material could be part of the ALS Starter Pack
  Natalia Enciso:Agree with Dev Heidi
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Definitin of a Stuy Group   and the output of the equivelent of ab Issues Report  IS the roll of out DT  Holly absolutly
  Carlton Samuels:I, for examle, is perfectly comfortable with a Chair we elect acting on the general sense of the committee and delivering an opinion, both informally and formally, to the Board Chair or a Board member on our behalf without coming back to me to ask for permission!
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:and  we need to just reference the exisiting  termenology acronyms look up NOW creatd by ICANN on the Web site  not recreate it
  Alan Greenberg:Example of confusing terminology: Consensus - means aof achieving agreement (or not) with various degrees. Consensus as in Consensus Policy - Implication is that it is generally agreed to by community but NOT really related to previous usage.
  Carlton Samuels:Yep, I used the Jamaican 'is'!
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Historically we use some terms  for mechanisms  IN  ALAC  lets  just work on those and see if there is any missing bits   and define them latter
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:can you yell at us OCL
  Carlton Samuels:CAnt hera rOCL
  Darlene Thompson:Can't hear you!
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:AGREE  ++++  with OCL
  Carlton Samuels:Still not hearing a word!
  Heidi Ullrich:Carlton, Olivier is much more clear now. Are you not able to hear him?
  Darlene Thompson:Nope
  Alan Greenberg:CLear but very low
  Carlton Samuels:No Heidi, I'm straining.
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:I was speaking directly into the mic
  Heidi Ullrich:basically, Olivier cautioned against being too strict in the rules.
  Carlton Samuels:Aaah, we're agreed!
  Carlton Samuels:Especially with respect to a Chair acting on our behalf
  Alan Greenberg:zPlease capture those words from Cheryl - mechanisms include but are not limited to and give examples. at 47 minutes after the hour
  Natalia Enciso:I have to leave earlier, have a doctor appointments. Will listen to the audio later. Take care you all.
  Dev Anand Teelucksingh:take care Natalia
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:+++ thanks Cheryl
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Did I mis many points  on what you said OCL
  Carlton Samuels:BYe Natalia
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Just that we should be careful about not turning the RoP into a book. Let's stick to a lean document. Internal procedures on running day to day business should be guidelines rather than RoP material
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:the other DT's  have not used  sanbox  much Holly their deliberations  tend  to be in  reports from their meetings at this stage  this is one of the reasons we now gave all DTs a sandbox to note development of things before capture  outputs  in the min template
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yup  OCL  LEAN
  Alan Greenberg:Heidi, Matt, It would be helpful if the document we are referring to as the "template" had that word in its title - allows search to work. Also, that page is hung off of the DSDT workspace and I thought it wasa general RoP page.
  Rudi Vansnick:may i ask where we are in the agenda of this call ... i'm really lost
  Dev Anand Teelucksingh:agreed Olivier - lean document, day to day business should be guidelines
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yep  absolutly
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:Holly can we also bring up the Draft in the Pen Holder section  so we can discuss headers in  our structure?
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:for example  we might want to refer to email lists and the Wiki (in terms of online tools for communication)  somewhere in our Sec A
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:call dropped
  Eduardo Diaz:The wiki is a great tool but it is becoming more dificult to find all this stuff.
  Heidi Ullrich:Alan, staff will add the word "template" so it can be found through a search
  Jacqueline A. Morris:wait - another wiki space? I'm totally lost in that space nowadays
  Heidi Ullrich:We'll also post it in a prominent place on the ROP WG page and put it it in the weblinks pod to the left.
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:can i s[peak?
  Matt Ashtiani:@ Alan - https://icann-community.icannatlassian.orgnet/wiki/x/H4AoAgM_ruBQ
  Heidi Ullrich:Jacqueline, not another. Just renamed :)
  Jacqueline A. Morris:When I saw the Sandbox link, I thought it was a practice with the wiki space, not an "official" workspace... looking at it for the first time now!
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:One thing I have leanrt from my colleague Chairing the GNSO was that the huge number of rules and the GNSO council's propensity to make more rules for everything, is a factor of stress rather than a relief for the Chair. We reach the point where rules hinder daily business
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yep we have ti Keep It Simple
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Sala  asked for a different space  to load up I think
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:Different link Matt
  Carlton Samuels:I need to run along.  Duty calls
  Carlton Samuels:Bye to all!
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:Bye Carlton
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Bye  Carlton
  Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Bye Carlton
  Matt Ashtiani::-)
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:Please pull up the Pen Holders space as well which is within the sandbox
  Matt Ashtiani:Good bye, Carlton.
  Matt Ashtiani:https://icann-community.icannatlassian.orgnet/wiki/displayspaces/atlarge/pages/99542796/At-Large+Definition+and+Structure+Drafting+Team+Membership
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:no
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:the dsdt
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:sandbox
  Matt Ashtiani:https://icann-community.icannatlassian.orgnet/wiki/displayspaces/atlarge/pages/99542673/At-Large+Definition+and+Structure+Draft+Team+Sandbox
  Heidi Ullrich:We could link the sandboxes to the template page
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:yes pull it up please
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:that might help Heidi
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:scroll right to the top
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:so we can all see
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Alan has  hand up still Holly
  Rudi Vansnick:too many documents are circuling around and i'm afraid many of us are lost in what is relevant and which content should be disgarded
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:ok will send what should be disregarded etc
  Jacqueline A. Morris:Rudi - +1
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Absoltely Alan  
  Jacqueline A. Morris:Alan - +1
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:the ssumption is that we are all checking the wiki weekly
  Jacqueline A. Morris:Sala - that was definitely a really poor assumption - I checked the wiki, but didn't know about all of the other new additional spaces, so could not check them
  Alan Greenberg:Matt, note that the template page is still hanging off of the DSDT page. Even if it is too late to move it (not a clue if it is), it needs a pointer from higher in the hierarchy.
  Rudi Vansnick:can we please redress all wiki stuff in such a way there is only ONE space where all info on this job can be found ?
  Heidi Ullrich:You should all be able to scroll on your own.
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:Thanks Heidi
  Rudi Vansnick:LOL her voice is recognised by almost 90% of the internet world ;-)
  Rudi Vansnick:what about the items we had discussions on ?
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:use the maiing list at this stage  
  Jacqueline A. Morris:Cheryl - +1. can we put a poll for EACH item that is up for agreement? The NomCom wiki works like that
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Yes there is  WAY to much in the Sandbox   take  stuff from it and anything else  like  a sub set of what Holly pu up at the start of the meeting  tat belong to  this DT  which  IS partly  in the Sandbox  but  is also in synch with the Master Tempate  tae that to the mail list  and ask if any of us have comments  sure as an AI
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:JAM the definitions are all just draft...
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr: but  not ready for consencuc  yet
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:Thanks Holly
  Rudi Vansnick:in Europe it is already late evening ;)
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:I was asking for Headers consensus on Headers for the skeletal draft limited to our drafting instructions;
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:not on definitions etc
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:thanks Holly
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:No comments
  Eduardo Diaz:motion to close the meeting
  Gisella Gruber-White:Next meeting for 90 minutes?
  Eduardo Diaz:Adios
  Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:Vye
  Rudi Vansnick:bye
  Heidi Ullrich:Bye all!
  Alan Greenberg:bye all
  Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Thank everyone, bye!
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:bye